Which countries have the best land/positioning?

kroko said:

Sure. And then portugal was conquered by spain in 1580, and in 1585 spain got defeated by england. Spain´s army couldnt invade england because england was an island. America´s colonization by england started a few years later (early 1600´s). England focused on its navy, unlike spain which had to develop a large army to fight in europe. Thats why England´s navy was technologically superior to spain despite numbers. Superior tech isnt born out of thin air. There is a reason for it.

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Your history is pretty idealized.

For a fact, the royal navy was technologically inferior to her peers in different ages. It had always been the training and experience of her mariners which saved the day. The English navy did not defeat the Spanish one, the North Sea storms did. Cannon fire during that age is very poor at destroying enemy ships - even thou the full rigged English ships with heavier cannons were considered the technologically more advanced ones.

French ships during the French revolutionary wars, Napoleonic wars outclass those of Britain with better gun, hull and rigging designs.

The Germans had better ships both in WW1 and WW2 than the British with better armor, fire control, machinery and damage control except for weight of broad side.

kroko said:

Since when was Russia a scientifical power? USSR was always about developing a large heavy low tech industry. Much of its civilian tech was stolen from the west, or even didnt exist. Only in military they were advanced, and thats because ¾ of their scientists worked on that field, and soviet scientists couldnt leave the country.

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Russia was at the forefront of some scientific break through, It was russian scientists who first mathamatically show that the the bug crush from the big bang theory may not occur as intertia of the mass moving towards each other can be so great that the gravitational pull between the masses will be insufficient to make them collide and therefore the big crush will not occur.

major laws of physics and science were discovered by Russians like the Lenz's law of electromagnetism. Many inventions are by russians like the first helicopter, night vision , acoustic oceanography and they are also the first country to put a man in space - which is hard to believe that they copied some western tech to do it as the designs were so different.

kroko said:

The USA is the major exception to this rule, because it was founded by an island nation (england). The US inherited from england its economical and technological aspects, and to a certain extent its political and cultural aspects. The US was always a democracy. If it had been colonized by germany or russia, do you think that the result would had been the same?

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Umm, nope, the USA is not a democracy. Technically the USA is a constitutional republic with representative democracy which works on the principle of majority rule with birth rights.

The USA in actuallity is much more of a oligarchy plutocrazy in reality.

Also, the British did not colonize north america alone, the scandinavians, dutch, french and spanish were also there. The Dutch, French and Spanish poccesions were taken by the British through war. And the majority of immigrants were not English, there were significant amount of Irish, Chinese, Italian and German.

kroko said:

The USA could be considered an “island” nation from the early XX century. It just didnt had/have continental threats anymore. The USA beated japan because they had superior tech (due in large part to the fact that it had industrialized much sooner. Heck, it was the US who forced japan to open up in 1859) they had much superior industry and resources, both mineral and human.

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The US did not have significantly superior tech to the Japanese. The have a lot of equal technology, but at much greater numbers. Ship for ship, the IJN was better, but the US have many more ships.

You can read around, the Zero was as good as any early war american fighter, the Ki 84 was as good as any american late war fighter. The Moghamis were as good as any US cruiser less the Alaskas which were really battlecrusiers. Even the Japanese carrier landing systems were considered superior to american ones which after the war, the Americans copied it. The Japanese WMD program on biological weapons is a match for the western allies WMD program in Nukes or the German WMD program in nerve gas.

kroko said:

But earlier, japan beated china, imperial Rússia and korea, the first two much larger than japan in size.

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And you should correct your statement, Japan never defeated China - It was an on going war. Tsushima is not a good example, the Imperial Russian navy traveled 18000 miles to the battle. The Japanese calculated that their fleet will lose 10% combat power for every 1200 miles it travels, and therefore decided to intercept the Russian fleet before it can refit at port Arthur.

Like if you like to pick and choose, England have been successfully invaded by the Romans and the French - both of which are land powers. Ming Taiwan have been successfully been Manchurian China which is a land power. Japan ultimately failed all three invasion of the continent (1592, 1597, 1910).

kroko said:

Its not. When china runs out of cheap labour and other nations force it to abandon its mercantilist policies, the comunist regime will sucumb due to its ineficiency, corruption and lack of democratic legitimacy (born out of the excessive interference of the state in the economy. China´s capitalism is a form of state capitalism). What will china be post-comunism? No one knows.

No, it wont, the US will continue to dominate.

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LOL, Ummm, China technically is currently a Technocrazy - it is only communist in name just like the UK is a monarchy in name or the USA is a representative democracy in name.

Like, corruption this and that, how is it different from lets say the US lobbyist groups who gets paid billions to influence the government to do certain things. Or lets say the Bush family getting a lot of kick backs from the US military industrial complex by starting a war?

Stop listening to CNN or Fox news and use your brain to actually think about what they are saying. What Chinese merchantile policies? Basically China is doing what the US had done to europe in the 1900s, making things cheaper and at the same time better. Europe responded by putting up trade tariffs in the 1920s instead of improving the efficacy of their economy and the US is thinking of doing the same right now. History had shown that in doing so have caused the great depression.

The US had its first brain drain ever in the previous few years, her rich is flocking to other countries to preserve their fortunes, her investors are investing money in other nations than herself. How do you expect the US to continue to dominate?

Lezt said:

Your history is pretty idealized.

For a fact, the royal navy was technologically inferior to her peers in different ages. It had always been the training and experience of her mariners which saved the day. The English navy did not defeat the Spanish one, the North Sea storms did. Cannon fire during that age is very poor at destroying enemy ships - even thou the full rigged English ships with heavier cannons were considered the technologically more advanced ones.

French ships during the French revolutionary wars, Napoleonic wars outclass those of Britain with better gun, hull and rigging designs.

The Germans had better ships both in WW1 and WW2 than the British with better armor, fire control, machinery and damage control except for weight of broad side.




Russia was at the forefront of some scientific break through, It was russian scientists who first mathamatically show that the the bug crush from the big bang theory may not occur as intertia of the mass moving towards each other can be so great that the gravitational pull between the masses will be insufficient to make them collide and therefore the big crush will not occur.

major laws of physics and science were discovered by Russians like the Lenz's law of electromagnetism. Many inventions are by russians like the first helicopter, night vision , acoustic oceanography and they are also the first country to put a man in space - which is hard to believe that they copied some western tech to do it as the designs were so different.

Umm, nope, the USA is not a democracy. Technically the USA is a constitutional republic with representative democracy which works on the principle of majority rule with birth rights.

The USA in actuallity is much more of a oligarchy plutocrazy in reality.

Also, the British did not colonize north america alone, the scandinavians, dutch, french and spanish were also there. The Dutch, French and Spanish poccesions were taken by the British through war. And the majority of immigrants were not English, there were significant amount of Irish, Chinese, Italian and German.

The US did not have significantly superior tech to the Japanese. The have a lot of equal technology, but at much greater numbers. Ship for ship, the IJN was better, but the US have many more ships.

You can read around, the Zero was as good as any early war american fighter, the Ki 84 was as good as any american late war fighter. The Moghamis were as good as any US cruiser less the Alaskas which were really battlecrusiers. Even the Japanese carrier landing systems were considered superior to american ones which after the war, the Americans copied it. The Japanese WMD program on biological weapons is a match for the western allies WMD program in Nukes or the German WMD program in nerve gas.



And you should correct your statement, Japan never defeated China - It was an on going war. Tsushima is not a good example, the Imperial Russian navy traveled 18000 miles to the battle. The Japanese calculated that their fleet will lose 10% combat power for every 1200 miles it travels, and therefore decided to intercept the Russian fleet before it can refit at port Arthur.

Like if you like to pick and choose, England have been successfully invaded by the Romans and the French - both of which are land powers. Ming Taiwan have been successfully been Manchurian China which is a land power. Japan ultimately failed all three invasion of the continent (1592, 1597, 1910).


LOL, Ummm, China technically is currently a Technocrazy - it is only communist in name just like the UK is a monarchy in name or the USA is a representative democracy in name.

Like, corruption this and that, how is it different from lets say the US lobbyist groups who gets paid billions to influence the government to do certain things. Or lets say the Bush family getting a lot of kick backs from the US military industrial complex by starting a war?

Stop listening to CNN or Fox news and use your brain to actually think about what they are saying. What Chinese merchantile policies? Basically China is doing what the US had done to europe in the 1900s, making things cheaper and at the same time better. Europe responded by putting up trade tariffs in the 1920s instead of improving the efficacy of their economy and the US is thinking of doing the same right now. History had shown that in doing so have caused the great depression.

The US had its first brain drain ever in the previous few years, her rich is flocking to other countries to preserve their fortunes, her investors are investing money in other nations than herself. How do you expect the US to continue to dominate?

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I agree with many things you say but i think Krokro has some truths, for example during the Roman empire transportation was limited so geography played a role very important, the Americas were isolated from old wold, much later in 1492, the early globalization started but still transportation meant geography played a role, Spain or Portugal never succeded in colonizing Asia.

with the advent of more technologies meant Europe rule supreme from 1492 to 1918, when the age of the US started now we are living the last days of PAX americana.

Now we live in a society where you and me live in different countries perhaps even different continents and i can assure we might even watch the same programs buy the same brand of computers or cars.

What i mean is knowledge has spread to every corner of the world.

Today a ICBM makes geography meaningless, internet does the same in comunications.

In the time of the Spanish Armada war were fought with more unreliability, England was saved by luck, but in the same way England never invaded Spain.

Now ICBMs and SLBM make war global, satellites war reporting live, economic crisis impact globally.

You say China is taking the wealth of the USA but in reality China is addicted to dollars in a way that the are affraid of revalueing the yuan, a cheaper dollar means crisis for China.

In fact if you want to understand why Japan got into crisis is simply Japan achieved parity economically with the US, the dollar is now even cheaper today that american goods are now more common in Japan.


There is too much interdependance these days that China needs the US or EU in the same way they need China, and with the comming of age of India, Brazil and the new Russia the global village will mean no power will have the strength to rule over the other unless by concensus

legoboy said:

Ok, I am no longer taking your posts seriously lol.

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seriously, don't feed the troll. If he still posts here despite saying he won't post again, he can say anything with no regard.

MiG-29 said:

I agree with many things you say but i think Krokro has some truths, for example during the Roman empire transportation was limited so geography played a role very important, the Americas were isolated from old wold, much later in 1492, the early globalization started but still transportation meant geography played a role, Spain or Portugal never succeded in colonizing Asia.

with the advent of more technologies meant Europe rule supreme from 1492 to 1918, when the age of the US started now we are living the last days of PAX americana.

Now we live in a society where you and me live in different countries perhaps even different continents and i can assure we might even watch the same programs buy the same brand of computers or cars.

What i mean is knowledge has spread to every corner of the world.

Today a ICBM makes geography meaningless, internet does the same in comunications.

In the time of the Spanish Armada war were fought with more unreliability, England was saved by luck, but in the same way England never invaded Spain.

Now ICBMs and SLBM make war global, satellites war reporting live, economic crisis impact globally.

You say China is taking the wealth of the USA but in reality China is addicted to dollars in a way that the are affraid of revalueing the yuan, a cheaper dollar means crisis for China.

In fact if you want to understand why Japan got into crisis is simply Japan achieved parity economically with the US, the dollar is now even cheaper today that american goods are now more common in Japan.


There is too much interdependance these days that China needs the US or EU in the same way they need China, and with the comming of age of India, Brazil and the new Russia the global village will mean no power will have the strength to rule over the other unless by concensus

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I agree that geography do have a role to play and I still believe geography have a role to play nowadays. The Taiwan Straits are still an impressive barrier for the PLA to overcome.

But we have to remember that history, as we English speakers is written in the anglo saxon perspective. You mentioned the failure of the Spanish armada; but do we recall the failure of the English armada a year after the failure of the Spanish armada.

Are we in an age of pax americana? I have to digress - I don't really agree. In certain perspective, yes, you can say that - but if you put all the facts together, it is much more muticulturalism than pax americana. The world does not standardize on the Inch Pound systems of dimensions and weights. Nor do we only watch american shows on international TV, we have British, French etc. Even Korean pop music is entering america or as have Manga and Anime from Japan.

And infact, you can still see the distinct spheres of influence. You have Pan Sinatism from the greater china area. you have pan slavicism from Russian tradition and also continental europeanism.

I actually did not say that China is taking American wealth. I have only said that China was able to make things cheaper, more efficiently and at better quality than the USA that therefore in market economy, China will take orders which will otherwise have gone to american factories. Instead of meeting the completion, the USA is trying to even the competition with litigation. Hence therefore, my statement is independent of wealth.

Japan is a very interesting case, parity with the USD is one thing, but productivity is another. Japanese man hour to produce a car is less than that of the USA; and at the same time, Japanese workers are paid less than their american counterpart. We also tend to forget that the Japanese are also an internal consumption economy. A significant portion of the Japanese economy do not export. A combination of natural disaster, failure to develop new competitive product and the reliance on money diplomacy contributed to it's woes nowadays.

Lezt said:

I agree that geography do have a role to play and I still believe geography have a role to play nowadays. The Taiwan Straits are still an impressive barrier for the PLA to overcome.

But we have to remember that history, as we English speakers is written in the anglo saxon perspective. You mentioned the failure of the Spanish armada; but do we recall the failure of the English armada a year after the failure of the Spanish armada.

Are we in an age of pax americana? I have to digress - I don't really agree. In certain perspective, yes, you can say that - but if you put all the facts together, it is much more muticulturalism than pax americana. The world does not standardize on the Inch Pound systems of dimensions and weights. Nor do we only watch american shows on international TV, we have British, French etc. Even Korean pop music is entering america or as have Manga and Anime from Japan.

And infact, you can still see the distinct spheres of influence. You have Pan Sinatism from the greater china area. you have pan slavicism from Russian tradition and also continental europeanism.

I actually did not say that China is taking American wealth. I have only said that China was able to make things cheaper, more efficiently and at better quality than the USA that therefore in market economy, China will take orders which will otherwise have gone to american factories. Instead of meeting the completion, the USA is trying to even the competition with litigation. Hence therefore, my statement is independent of wealth.

Japan is a very interesting case, parity with the USD is one thing, but productivity is another. Japanese man hour to produce a car is less than that of the USA; and at the same time, Japanese workers are paid less than their american counterpart. We also tend to forget that the Japanese are also an internal consumption economy. A significant portion of the Japanese economy do not export. A combination of natural disaster, failure to develop new competitive product and the reliance on money diplomacy contributed to it's woes nowadays.

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i agree with you, you know i am from Mexico, so anything that happens in the US does affect my country or Family, today 1/3 of my family lives in the US and has American passports, in fact i have family that fought in WWI and WWII in the US Army, but i think the good thing the US brought was internet, aviation, communications in fact most of modern inventions have an origin in the US, not all of course because humanity as a whole has given something in science or technology but definitively the modern world has a great debt to US technological advances, however i see modern the US is become less creative.
But well i also have family in Israel.

I do not think the US will stop being important, but i think as the world has become smaller, geography does not matter any more, what today matters is science technology and trade, however because we live in a global village, technology can be created any where so i think Today US and European firms have understood you need to create international products.

Embraer understands it very well, and Sukhoi is doing the same in Superjet.


So i do not think any nation has any geographical advantage these days.

I see it simply in Mexico`s economy, there is competition between China and Mexico for the US market, but today China exports more to the USA even despite mexican goods just need to cross the border.

Why? well depending how is used geography can play an advantage for Mexico or China, but that is too relative, because everything depends in in the quality of the product and the price it is sold.

India in future years will also start to increase commerce, in fact these days Indian bikes are gaining incredibly a great market in South America, so geography only will play a role in commerce as long as you do not use cheap transportation and cheap labour costs, but that is technology dependent

MiG-29 said:

in 1066, the Vikings discovered America and defeated England.
However England took that science and developed further.
However by 1941, England was at the Mercy of Germany, if Germany would had not attacked the Soviet Union and declared war to the US, by a combine effort of Submarines and air force Germany would had conquered England.
Both island nations lost their empires to Continental power, the USSR had all the technologies the US had, in fact the USSR had computers, aircraft, cars however the Soviet Union broke up, with this got bankrupt so most of its technologies were to the drain, and today western propaganda claims the Soviet Union was technologically backward, the Soviet Union had the technology, but they were not exploiting it properly.
Today England is no more a manufacturing power, Germany is the real ruler of Europe, in that geography has nothing to do, its commerce and science.
In weapons is the same, largest nuclear forces belong to Russia and USA both continental powers.
Geography played a very important role in the beginings of civilization, but now not anymore, in our days you have technology that is the product of many nations.
To put you an example, B787 has pieces from many countries, it is not anymore an american product, it has engines developed by US, mexicans and who knows who else, parts made in China and Japan and others from Europe.
Technology is globalazing it self and with this a multipolar world is emerging.

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vikings defeated england in the lower middle ages, before 1066, when there wasnt much tech/economy around. England was able to take science further, because it didnt have to worry about invasions from foreign nations.
England was never at the mercy of germany. Luftwaffe was defeated by RAF almost a year before germany´s invasion of USSR.
If you want to keep your fantasy that western tech was equalized by the USSR, fine.
Germany became the largest economy in europe after it was democratized by the west. Left for themselves, where would they be now?
For how long will Rússia possess that huge nuclear arsenal? SS-18, SS-19 and SS-25, which comprise the vast majority of the arsenal, will retire in a decade. Then they will only have a few SS-27 and a few bulavas.
Geography was very important up until 1945. Not so today. Thats true. But the island powers (USA, japan, UK) still have supremacy over the seas and the air
B787 may have pieces from any countries, but to whom the IPR belongs? Certainly not México. Technology may be global, but R&D still belong only to a few.

xywdx said:

USA beating Japan was simply a matter of size and resources. Japan only decisively beat China after the Opium Wars AND when much of the Chinese forces were tied down by the French. Imperial Russia has not been successful on its east coast campaigns, they even lost and ceded land to China.
What I's trying to say is that being islands doesn't mean anything, Japan and England are like apples and oranges, the reason Japan scored victories was because they spent all their money on military and had several good opportunities, whereas England focused on commerce and military prowess was the natural result.

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Japan only opened up in 1858. It defeated china´s navy in sino-japanese war of 1894-95. France had nothing to do with it. And since when did Rússia cede land to china? It was china that ceded land to Rússia in 1858-60. Japan had a major civilian economy. They didnt spend everything on military. England focused on commerce and naval power because they didnt had to face invasions

kroko said:

vikings defeated england in the lower middle ages, before 1066, when there wasnt much tech/economy around. England was able to take science further, because it didnt have to worry about invasions from foreign nations.
England was never at the mercy of germany. Luftwaffe was defeated by RAF almost a year before germany´s invasion of USSR.
If you want to keep your fantasy that western tech was equalized by the USSR, fine.
Germany became the largest economy in europe after it was democratized by the west. Left for themselves, where would they be now?
For how long will Rússia possess that huge nuclear arsenal? SS-18, SS-19 and SS-25, which comprise the vast majority of the arsenal, will retire in a decade. Then they will only have a few SS-27 and a few bulavas.
Geography was very important up until 1945. Not so today. Thats true. But the island powers (USA, japan, UK) still have supremacy over the seas and the air
B787 may have pieces from any countries, but to whom the IPR belongs? Certainly not México. Technology may be global, but R&D still belong only to a few.


Japan only opened up in 1858. It defeated china´s navy in sino-japanese war of 1894-95. France had nothing to do with it. And since when did Rússia cede land to china? It was china that ceded land to Rússia in 1858-60. Japan had a major civilian economy. They didnt spend everything on military. England focused on commerce and naval power because they didnt had to face invasions

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Germany was defeating England and that it is known, Germany halted sea lion not because England was strong, but because Hitler wanted to attack the USSR.

It is known that the Luftwaffe was wiping the RAF out of the skies, true England was downing many aircraft but the war of attrition was going to be win by Germany, specially when the Luftwaffe was attacking the RAF bases, however Hitler thought he did not want to continue with sea lion because he was getting old so he wanted to finish Russia so he took his eyes out of England and set his eyes on the USSR and later on the US.
In 1941 the German submarines were creating enough trouble to england to starve it and with renewed attacks Germany would had win but after the USSR enter the war 70% of the German foces went east.

Leaving a few forces facing England.

True the patents done by Mexican researchers belong to GE and Intel, however it does not stop those mexican engineers from create something new more advanced later for other company, in fact that is the whole game of China, India or Russia when they do outsourcing.

What Mexico is gaining is people that in future years will develop technology and create business
However i do not think Mexico will follow policies that affect the USA because there is too much interdependance.
today Russia has a company named elbrus, this company creates microprosesors used on Russian weapons and super computers, Russian software design, is known as really good, in fact Elbrus is from the Soviet times.
here is a good link for elbrus

Also Russia boeing designed parts for B787, those same engineers later can go to Sukhoi or Yakolev and create better inventions than those patented by Boeing Russia.

Today England is considered a minor nuclear power, Russia is te largest and continue developing ICBMs, something England is not doing better.

Some argued that the Luftwaffe could have won if they focused their resources attacking british air force assets but hitlet decides to try and bomb the british cities into submission instead.

MiG-29 said:

Germany was defeating England and that it is known

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Go read some history books

MiG-29 said:

True the patents done by Mexican researchers belong to GE and Intel, however it does not stop those mexican engineers from create something new more advanced later for other company, in fact that is the whole game of China, India or Russia when they do outsourcing.
What Mexico is gaining is people that in future years will develop technology and create business
Also Russia boeing designed parts for B787, those same engineers later can go to Sukhoi or Yakolev and create better inventions than those patented by Boeing Russia.
Today England is considered a minor nuclear power, Russia is te largest and continue developing ICBMs, something England is not doing better.

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R&D today envolves lots and lots of data and man-hours. Scientists cant take data/documents when they leave the companies where they worked. Besides, individually they only worked a portion of the projects. No one knows everything. Only the company has all the data/knowledge.
Otherwise there would be already lots of GE´s, Siemens, Microsoft, etc.
Of course scientists always take their experience with them. But it will require a lot of effort (ex: china ) in order to replicate that R&D.
It is the USA, Europe, Japan that outsource tech, not china, índia or Rússia.
Russia is the largest producer of ICBM. To whom they will sell them? Rússia should build things that sell

kroko said:

Japan only opened up in 1858. It defeated china´s navy in sino-japanese war of 1894-95. France had nothing to do with it. And since when did Rússia cede land to china? It was china that ceded land to Rússia in 1858-60. Japan had a major civilian economy. They didnt spend everything on military.

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First war was fought over Korea, a lot of problems occurred on the Chinese side that resulted in a defeat, but no Chinese land was in danger. Russia lost that part of land to China in the 17th century, but yes they did occupy it in 1858 when China was tied down by the British.

Japan spent over 60% of their money on military, the collapse of the Japanese economy would have been inevitable had they not invaded for more resources.

kroko said:

England focused on commerce and naval power because they didnt had to face invasions

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Are you trolling me?
The reason they build up their navy was to prevent invasions!