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sequ

sequ

Captain
Registered Member
Santamaria said:
These Ukranians live in Narnia.
I was contacted years ago to work on KAAN on behalf of BAE.
They offered crazy high salaries. But the work was in Ankara, that is not so open and liveable as Istanbul.
Let me doubt that European engineers without experience in 5th generation aircraft, and without experience at the same level than Americans one in combat planes in general plus Turkish engineers without experience at all will be able to create a 5th generation aircraft that matches the US ones is delusional at best.

About Ukrainians engineers working in the engines is even more laughable. Ukraine didn’t manufacture combat plane engines even in times of the Soviet Union. They did mainly civil aircraft. And they didn’t develop nothing new in years, but somehow they are relevant for a 5th generation combat aircraft?
The last part, we know where we will use it. So you Ukraine plan to continue at work in 2028 when first KAAN it’s planned to start operation?
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Thank you for your input José
 
H

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
sequ said:
Ukrainian ambassador to Turkiye:

Ukrainian ambassador Bodnar/CNN TURK
- Bayraktar TB2 became a veteran of the Ukrainian war. He became very popular in Ukrainian society as a defender of Ukrainian lands Selçuk and Haluk BAYRAKTAR are also heroes of Ukraine
- I believe that KAAN can have the full potential to compete with F35 and F22 and this is the story of the future
- Ukrainian teams continue to work on the engine for Turkey's national combat aircraft, Kaan. Ukrainian teams are working and competing for the Kaan project
- 'Do you think Ukraine will buy Kaan in the future?' Bodnar's answer to the question: 'We will not only buy it, we will also use it. We also know where to use it.
Click to expand...
Regardless of whether Ukraine wins or loses, or becomes a vassal of Russia, or a NATO member....

Ukrainian talent repesents a unique opporunity for Turkey to poach top-level talent.
 
G

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
Santamaria said:
Let me doubt that European engineers without experience in 5th generation aircraft, and without experience at the same level than Americans one in combat planes in general plus Turkish engineers without experience at all will be able to create a 5th generation aircraft that matches the US ones is delusional at best.
Click to expand...
BAE did Replica. They probably can design a stealth airframe if they want to make one.

Santamaria said:
About Ukrainians engineers working in the engines is even more laughable. Ukraine didn’t manufacture combat plane engines even in times of the Soviet Union. They did mainly civil aircraft. And they didn’t develop nothing new in years, but somehow they are relevant for a 5th generation combat aircraft?
The last part, we know where we will use it. So you Ukraine plan to continue at work in 2028 when first KAAN it’s planned to start operation?
Click to expand...
Yeah. That is, ahem, interesting to say the least. I mean the Russians doubled the Ukrainian Al-222 engine's lifetime by just adding different coatings to it. I repeat. The Russians increased the lifetime of the Ukrainian engine. And you know how famous Russian engines are for their endurance.

Ukraine is allegedly capable of making deep maintenance to RD-33 engines. They can probably make all the parts for that engine. They had a plan to make their own engine to replace the RD-33 in their MiG-29. But nothing came out of that. I wouldn't be surprised if you could reuse a D-436 engine core to make a fighter engine if you really wanted to.

A 5th generation engine is something quite different altogether. They won't be able to do one.
 
S

Santamaria

Junior Member
Registered Member
sequ said:
We went through this some years ago but I'll refresh the minds of some here:

View attachment 125428View attachment 125426View attachment 125427
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Does this ever reach any step of development? Post Soviet Russia and post Soviet Ukraine were famous to create many plans and don’t deliver nothing.

Russia at some point started to deliver with a decade of delay, but at least they did

From Ukraine I have only listen plans.

Also take into consideration that in 2008 Russia and Ukraine were collaborating a lot. Ukrainian engines were still used in the Russian transport planes and so on.
Also Russia was buying still antonovs if I am not mistaken.
In 2014 Ukrainian industry lost its biggest partner and customer
 
sequ

sequ

Captain
Registered Member
Santamaria said:
Does this ever reach any step of development?
Click to expand...
The first image literately differentiates between various stages.

Santamaria said:
Post Soviet Russia and post Soviet Ukraine were famous to create many plans and don’t deliver nothing.
Click to expand...
Dunno, turbinemachinery is expensive to develop. No customer, no money. Doesn't mean they are not technically capable of doing so.

Again, thank you for your input José.
 
G

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
Those are all variants of existing Soviet engines. It is as if the Russians would claim they designed four engines because there are four variants of the Klimov VK-2500. The Al-450 is also a modification of a pre-existing APU turbine so it is not a whole new design.
I think the Ukrainians only designed two actually "new" aviation engines in the post Soviet period. Al-222 and MS-500V.

Research in advanced aviation engine materials was always conducted in Russia. Not in Ukraine. That is one of the reasons why Ukraine can't make a 5th generation engine regardless of how much money you gave them.

It takes 5-10 years to design an engine and put it into actual production. But it takes twice as long to develop materials.
 
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