Syrian Civil War

Status
Not open for further replies.

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
If Assad falls, then Syria will become a Medieval failed state like Libya. Its not the end of the world for Russia and China, but Islamic terrorism will become an even bigger menace than it already is for them. If anyone thinks that they'll go after Israel first, they're living in deluded fantasy. They're falling to same the lies and narratives by the West, Israel, Qatar, and Turkey, just like the rest of the pro-Palestine sheeps who go along with this anti-Assad BS since 2011. It doesn't matter what kinda monster Assad actually is, if these Western-aligned terrorists takeover Syria, they are going after Iran and Central Asia next. Then China's BRI plans will be under real threat. Look at the bigger picture and connect the dots for once.
Honestly I doubt it, there's too many foreign actors in Syria for it to fall completely like Libya due to its proximity to Israel and Turkey. Compare to endless civil wars, an insular Taliban esq take over of the country might bring some stability for a change. the country has been at war from one side to the other for 13 whole years now, kids born at the beginning will soon be of age to be drafted to fight, a stalemate is probably the worst outcome for the future of the country.
 

TPenglake

Junior Member
Registered Member
One important point that you've missed out is that HTS is not an indigenous Syrian movement like what the Taliban is to the Afghans.
Well, I'm not too familiar on the exact ethnic makeup of HTS's fighters, but just to be clear for many "Afghans" the original Taliban might as well have been foreigners despite being nominally a part of Afghan territory. Being mostly ethnic Pashtun, speaking a mutually unintelligable dialect with Dari, and being made up of youths who spent their entire childhoods in refugee camps outside of Afghanistan and knew nothing of the struggles or traditions that defined Afghanistan in the 80s and 90s. The reality of all nations with artifical colonial borders.
These foreigners are invaders and they will have little care for the original Syrians, similar to the Zionists having little care for the Palestinians.
Neither did the Taliban care whether native Afghans wanted their ultraconservative intrepretation of Islam. To say that Taliban had little care for minorities like Hazaras is the understatement of the century.
If Assad falls, then Syria will become a Medieval failed state like Libya. Its not the end of the world for Russia and China, but Islamic terrorism will become an even bigger menace than it already is for them. If anyone thinks that they'll go after Israel first, they're living in deluded fantasy. They're falling to same the lies and narratives by the West, Israel, Qatar, and Turkey, just like the rest of the pro-Palestine sheeps who go along with this anti-Assad BS since 2011. It doesn't matter what kinda monster Assad actually is, if these Western-aligned terrorists takeover Syria, they are going after Iran and Central Asia next. Then China's BRI plans will be under real threat. Look at the bigger picture and connect the dots for once.
Yeah, its a messed up situation. What can anyone do to change it? China has been mostly uninvolved in Syria, with all the heavy lifting to save Bashar's regime being in the hands of the Iranians and the Russians. Russia and Iran certainly didn't lack in terms of their application of extreme violence to win back Assad's territory, but did they put in equal effort to ensure Bashar's legitimacy? Bashar based memes being spread by tankies does not grant one legitimacy, the only undisputed metric of legitimacy is quality of life which as we've seen hardly got better for Syrians in government controlled territories and the idea of a united Syria hardly penetrated Syrian society to the extent its soldiers would be willing to die for it. (If anything, funny enough, it was mostly Bashar's online fanboys that romanticized the idea of a united Syria)

As for the ramifications this will have for extremism in Central Asia and China's BRI? Well that's a discussion for another thread, but I for the moment don't think Syria's various conflicts will have that many ramifications for it. More immediate will be China's diplomacy in the region, both direct and economic, especially as Russian power declines.
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
Well, I'm not too familiar on the exact ethnic makeup of HTS's fighters, but just to be clear for many "Afghans" the original Taliban might as well have been foreigners despite being nominally a part of Afghan territory. Being mostly ethnic Pashtun, speaking a mutually unintelligable dialect with Dari, and being made up of youths who spent their entire childhoods in refugee camps outside of Afghanistan and knew nothing of the struggles or traditions that defined Afghanistan in the 80s and 90s. The reality of all nations with artifical colonial borders.
HTS and its allies are comprised of multinational Takfiris from all over the Middle East, Turkey, Central Asia, and Xinjiang, China. They have their own Syrian leadership, but they are directed by foreign actors. So no, HTS and their kind are not the same as the Taliban.

Neither did the Taliban care whether native Afghans wanted their ultraconservative intrepretation of Islam. To say that Taliban had little care for minorities like Hazaras is the understatement of the century.
I have never said that the Talibans are saints. I do not like them too. But comparing them to HTS is still inaccurate. One is homegrown, the other is foreign.

Yeah, its a messed up situation. What can anyone do to change it? China has been mostly uninvolved in Syria, with all the heavy lifting to save Bashar's regime being in the hands of the Iranians and the Russians. Russia and Iran certainly didn't lack in terms of their application of extreme violence to win back Assad's territory, but did they put in equal effort to ensure Bashar's legitimacy? Bashar based memes being spread by tankies does not grant one legitimacy, the only undisputed metric of legitimacy is quality of life which as we've seen hardly got better for Syrians in government controlled territories and the idea of a united Syria hardly penetrated Syrian society to the extent its soldiers would be willing to die for it. (If anything, funny enough, it was mostly Bashar's online fanboys that romanticized the idea of a united Syria)
True. China is not directly involved in Syria, and it did the right thing to stay mostly out of that mess. The fault of the current disaster in Syria falls mainly on the Assad government and it's immediate allies. They were duped by Turkey, Israel and the West again, and they've failed to build on that hard fought limited victory that they had won years ago.

As for the ramifications this will have for extremism in Central Asia and China's BRI? Well that's a discussion for another thread, but I for the moment don't think Syria's various conflicts will have that many ramifications for it. More immediate will be China's diplomacy in the region, both direct and economic, especially as Russian power declines.
I think the ramification of a fallen Syria are not good for BRI. The fall out will not be immediate as the various terrorists in Syria will initially fight each other to grab the spoils of that nation's carcass. Some might continue their terrorism into Lebanon.

But before they begin to fix their eyes on Israel, Erdogan and the West would want to setup a new rat line to send these terrorists eastwards. They have plenty of terrorist pets from Pan-Turkic ethnicities like Uzbeks, Tajiks, and Uighurs in Syria right now. The West desires to use them to mess up Central Asia and Xinjiang. While Erdogan and his gang wants to spread their Pan-Turkic "Empire" as far as they can go. Why do you think the West, Qatar, and Erdogan continue to peddle the Uighur Genocide myth? It's end goal is to prepare and motivate Takfiri terrorists to target China.
 

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
Honestly I doubt it, there's too many foreign actors in Syria for it to fall completely like Libya due to its proximity to Israel and Turkey. Compare to endless civil wars, an insular Taliban esq take over of the country might bring some stability for a change. the country has been at war from one side to the other for 13 whole years now, kids born at the beginning will soon be of age to be drafted to fight, a stalemate is probably the worst outcome for the future of the country.
The key word is "insular". HTS and their allies are more foreign in nature than insular. As of now, there are no Syrian equivalent of a Taliban or Hezbollah. Maybe such a group might one day spawn out of hardship caused by government neglect and terrorist brutality. We shall see.
 

sheogorath

Major
Registered Member
Still kinda surprised that in 2024 we have people trying to whitewash al-Nusra/ISIS off shoots all over again, like we didn't see them chop the heads of kids or put women in cages while parading them around so they wouldnt get bombed by the Russians while Turkey, the US and Israel provided them with air support and medical attention.
 

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
SAA has been through worse times .
2015

View attachment 140480
The SAA at that time had more equipment, they lost most of that equipment accumulated during 13 years of war, so as I said, the SAA today is weaker than the SAA of 2011. In addition, Iran and Russia at that time had more willingness, opportunities and means to protect Assad.
 

Michael90

Junior Member
Registered Member
I am fully aware of what the Assad family did. They have killed tens of thousands of Syrians. They have did things that could rival Saddam. Then again these rebels you love so much have managed to make them look like saints. They have killed hundreds of thousands of Syrians and that includes using chemical weapons too.

Saddam and Assad side killed people to keep their multiethnic nation together. While the rebels killed and raped people to bend a nation to their perverse version of an Islamic Caliphate. If you want to condemn the forces in Syria, don't be selective. Don't talk about the atrocities of only one side while ignoring the other. Otherwise you appear to be an apologist for Salafi terrorism. So stop smirking.

Your argument is bereft of geopolitical common sense. Let's use some cold hard logic, which you think you're espousing. Assad's brutality stays in Syria, while the rebels' brutality will extend out of Syria. So it is in the interest of countries who oppose terrorism to keep Assad in power.
No, you are wrong. For one, i have no stake in the syrian conflict as it has no bearing on me and the country. I merely making an observation. Assads dysnatsy is to blame 100% for the state of the country nobody else bears that responsibility apart from him and his regime since they have ruled Syria for over half a century. So they had enough time to build an inclusive, free, prosperous and democratic country but instead they choose to maintain a regime of terror,killings and fear over rhe people. So an uprising of this sort was bound to happen one day, was only a matter of time and it did happen with the Arab spring uprisings. However unlike other Arab countries like Tunisia, Sudan or Egypt whose brutal dictators were forced to leave power by the people and Army, Assads dynasty was lucky to have Russia and Iran with her Shia proxies all over the region to intervene to save his ass, and unfortunately for Syria, most of the country's top military leaders(mostly consisting of shia/alawite loyalists) decided to side with Assad and help him in suppressing/killing the people who rose up against the regime, this is what led to people taking up arms and even many in the military refusing orders to kill and defecting to the side of the revolutionaries. The rest is history.
Even so he still had time to resign or leave power and organise a free/fair general election to avoid the country spiralling into a civil war. However we all know that dictators don't care about the country they only care about their power/rule, even if the whole country has to be destroyed to maintain their rule i can assure you that they will do just that. Which is what he did. So he bares full responsibilities for Syria's current predicament today and history will recognise him for that unfortunately.

There is one thing i find rather odd though. From what ive observed, its rather puzzling that those people who were clamouring and cheering for Saddam's Sunnis brutal baath party regime to be toppled in Iraq by the US/West are actually the ones now supporting the very same Assad Shia brutal baathist regime in Syria. I understand that there is a sectarian issue(Sunni vs Shia) in the middle east, but still its an interesting thing to see and something to ponder on. Guess everyone has their religious/ideological/cultural bias.
How is China building things for a piss poor country full of militants that are under the control of US and Turkey a win for us? Even if we were neutral, how would they pay for it? By promising us oil? Terrorist leader pledges 20 years of oil shipments to China for us to build them a bridge; 5 days after we finish it, he gets killed in a drone strike. Israel's like, "My bad; we thought he was a different dude with a big beard and turban in sandals." Next guy's like, "Bridge? What bridge? I'm pretty sure that was always there."
I think thats your view/wish. However, looking at how China's foreign investment and economic relations has been going on these past decades we can see that China doesn't really care who is ruling which country. China is mostly focused on business first and foremost. Even India who has very bad relations with China and who has clashed and killed chinese soldiers China is still keen to invest and do business with India despite the Indian government trying everything to limit or stop chinese investments in the country. So China is more of a mercantilist and business oriented/pragmatic country as far as there is money to be made then the country will invest there. So it won't change China's investment descisions in Syria just because the ruling party or leadership is more allied with the West/Turkey or whatever. If there is money or opportunities to be made China will get involvef and invest. I have to admit the Chinese leadership is a very rational and pragmatic one.
 
Last edited:

Michael90

Junior Member
Registered Member
I really wonder what kind of deal they made?
Interesting that even the leader of the biggest Shia militias group in Iraq are now staying away from getting involved and coming to Assads aid. Seems they have seen the writitng on the wall and dont want to get on the wrong side of the rebels of they seize power. Afterall, these shias groups also got in power through the same way when Saddams regime collasped and was toppled by the US and they had to fill the vacuum as they were allied with the US/West against Saddam's regime.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I think thats your view/wish. However, looking at how China's foreign investment and economic relations has been going on these past decades we can see that China doesn't really care who is ruling which country. China is mostly focused on business first and foremost. Even India who has very bad relations with China and who has clashed and killed chinese soldiers China is still keen to invest and do business with India despite the Indian government trying everything to limit or stop chinese investments in the country. So China is more of a mercantilist and business oriented/pragmatic country as far as there is money to be made then the country will invest there. So it won't change China's investment descisions in Syria just because the ruling party or leadership is more allied with the West/Turkey or whatever. If there is money or opportunities to be made China will get involvef and invest. I have to admit the Chinese leadership is a very rational and pragmatic one.
India is actually a significantly large market which China is used to investing in. There is also the factor that leaving the Indian markets to the West is doing them a favor. Syria, however... what does it have to offer China? Does it have money to pay for anything? No. It needs to pay with oil. Can we trust a country run by pro-US/Turkey militants to continue to pay us with long term oil commitments?

China is certainly rational and pragmatic, which means that you need to offer it a deal that makes sense. Either to align with it or you have to be able to reliably pay for the things you get. Would a new Syria be the former or the latter?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top