South East Asia Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Re: ASEAN military news

Both sides have presented their detailed opinions and that's really great, that's the whole point of a forum. But how about just agreeing to disagree?

Re: ASEAN military news

Crucial for ASEAN to take stand on South China Sea disputes

BEIJING: Singapore's Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong has said it is crucial for ASEAN to weigh in on territorial disputes in the South China Sea with a view of resolving them constructively.

He urged the regional grouping not to stay mum on the code of conduct for the South China Sea.

Speaking to the Singapore media at the end of his official visit to China, Mr Lee also underscored the need for Singapore to make clear its stand on the issue.

Singapore is pushing for ASEAN to start discussion and take a stand on a code of conduct for the South China Sea.

At the end of his week-long tour of China, Mr Lee said issues such as freedom of navigation and the need for stability in the South China Sea affect all ASEAN countries, not just those with competing territorial claims.

Mr Lee said: "Members will have disputes, but ASEAN has to take a stand and can take a neutral stand. It's like when the Thais have a dispute with Cambodia, ASEAN made a statement which didn't take sides with either Thailand or Cambodia. This was over the Preah Vihear temple, but ASEAN did have a view that it should be settled peacefully because otherwise it is going to do harm to ASEAN."

He called the South China Sea issue a "difficult dispute" and said Singapore has to speak constructively and encourage moderation on all sides.

Mr Lee said: "We can't speak for America, we should not speak for America, we should not speak for China. We have to speak from Singapore's perspective. The Chinese understand our position. It's not inimical to the Chinese view and it is not very different in many major elements with what China is trying to achieve, because China does not want to raise a temperature or to have a conflict either."

On Singapore's role in China's development, Mr Lee said the private sector is increasingly taking the lead, while the Singapore government plays a supporting role.

Bilateral relations have also moved from economics to cooperation in other areas such as tourism and traffic management.

Mr Lee said: "It's a big headache for all the Chinese cities, and you can see the traffic jams in Beijing. Where they have to, they don't auction but they have a kind of COE system and they hold a ballot every month and distribute the COEs. And I read just a couple of days ago that Guangzhou is also doing the same - partly balloting, partly auctioning off licence plates which mean COEs.

"So they see Singapore doing it, they adapt, they are looking at us not as the only way, but one example, and they find a solution which is workable and politically acceptable in China, and they move forward. We help them to map out one corner of the possibilities for new policies."

China is also interested in Singapore's social management and in building a harmonious society.

Mr Lee said that's an area that Singapore is still grappling with especially in getting the young to develop a sense of community purpose and belonging beyond themselves and their families.

- CNA/de

Re: ASEAN military news

jackliu said:

Never had I once said you were "Anti-China". You are the one putting this into my mouth, or never had I said you were a patriot, I don't never know where you are from so who am I accusing you of patriot for? You already said you are not from Vietnam

Please go back to your last post or every post before that, and read what you typed, you constantly comparing China with Vietnam, China did this, China did this when they were poor, so can Vietnam, China did this when they were rich, so can Vietnam. Need to remind you, China is NOT VIETNAM, please get this into your head. Just because China do, does not mean Vietnam will follow. And I already explain to you the difference between Vietnam and Sweden, so why are you bring it up again?

Now, please explain to me why you think Vietnam will follow China's model? When there are literally hundred of other weapon importer nations that are bigger, more populous, more wealthy than Vietnam? Why will Vietnam do it, or rather why have all others nations similar to Vietnam's strength cannot? What makes Vietnam so special? I seriously would like to know.


And the so call evidnce is those 3 projected that you listed, a civilian cargo ship which was desigened in Korea, a 500 t patrol boat which is also designed outside Veitnam, a MBT project which is nothing but a rumor on the internet, and you are telling me those are the proof that Vietnam is following the China's path? And you do know why I said it is easy to develp vehicle and small arms right? Because they are easy to research, easy to produce, now try to argue that Vietnam can produce submairen and fighter jets. But if you want to argue that producing an AK-47 is on the same level as producing a Su-27... then you are utterly hopeless.

You have absoulty no evidnce that Vietnam is following China's path except what your own personal opinioin. Oh and lastly, so far the evidence is on my side, Vietnam right now have NOTHING, all of thier major miltary items are imported, all you can aruge is that "Soon", in the "future", "they will", "they can", "they might". And I already told you, no one can predict the future, and yes, that include YOU.

I propose this, let take a bet? Stay on the damn form for the next five years and we'll track Vietnam's progress, we'll see who is right.

Click to expand...

Need I spell it out for you?

I know you probably a Vietnamese and wants pride for your own country, but please don't let your own nationalistic pride to blind realty.

Click to expand...

Unless I misunderstand you, you implied that I let my own nationalistic pride blind realty and when I say being blind patriote I didn't mean literally :rolleye:

Why do you have such a hard on for China????

Click to expand...

and many many other posts whereby I have never ever touch on anything that is against China or what, but you have been implying this,

when they are among the super rich nation on earth along side with India, and look down on the helpless little poor China and being the ruler of the plant earth.

Click to expand...

Oh... and this,

Please go back to your last post or every post before that, and read what you typed, you constantly comparing China with Vietnam, China did this, China did this when they were poor, so can Vietnam, China did this when they were rich, so can Vietnam. Need to remind you, China is NOT VIETNAM, please get this into your head. Just because China do, does not mean Vietnam will follow. And I already explain to you the difference between Vietnam and Sweden, so why are you bring it up again?

Click to expand...

When did I ever compare Vietnam to China... it is a simple and logical sense, China can do alot of things when they are still poor, you haven't really tell me why Vietnam can't. All you can say is, Vietnam do not have the population, the technology base (which I already tell you Vietnam had the population, she might not have the technology base, but so is China, but that does not stop China from getting up to where she was now? Why would anything stop Vietnam from rising too?) All you can say is Vietnam don't have the wealth... and I refrute you saying that China don't have the wealth too when she accomplish many stuff. And I needed to remind YOU that, in almost every post, you have steered away my original meaning to country vs country, go and read up and don't ask me to quote, I am getting pretty tire of doing all those stuff.

As to questioning me on why I think Vietnam will follow China's model... when did I say Vietnam will do that? I say Vietnam might follow China's footstep. In the past, China did import most of their materials and equipments from other country, then they go through the phase - to license built these equipments, and finally to their own R&D. Vietnam might be able to do that too. AT this present moment, they might not have the capability, but I go ahead and quote you some of Vietnam's own R&D, and I noted that they built their own MBT (might not be on par with world standards) and I quote that they have good habour too. Tell me, if you were a shipping company, would you hand your design to some backward harbour or pier or whatever you choose to call it to manufacture your ships? Obviously the shipping industry is quite good for the Vietnamese to secure some contracts to build ships for the South Koreans.

Oh... and Vietnamese built a few gunboats plus logistic ships for their own Navy too.

I am not calling any proof of anything, I am saying that Vietnam had their own R&D, small maybe, but it was definitely there... and will grow whether you like it or not.

As to your bet, fine... lets do that. We can track whatever you want... if that would make you happy.

(Vietnam to produce components for Scud Missile fuel)
(unless it is a fake, then well... Vietnam is receiving Russia help in some aspect of the Naval R&D)

(Vietnam is building missiles boats on license from Russia and with Russian's assistance - this proof my point in saying that if Vietnam wanted, she could get the help she need from Russia. And that she is already starting to license built weaponries, this is the first step to becoming self sufficient)

Latest news flash, Vietnam is poise as the first ASEAN country to have nuclear power plants.... but that doesn't matter does it? These nuclear power plants will most probably be from other countries and Vietnam is still a poor piece of soil.

Re: ASEAN military news

joshuatree said:

Both sides have presented their detailed opinions and that's really great, that's the whole point of a forum. But how about just agreeing to disagree?

Click to expand...

Well... I would agree with u on this one.

Re: ASEAN military news

This debate advances knowledge of an important situation. Let it continue. I am learning many things

Re: ASEAN military news

PN to Acquire Advance and Sophisticated Weapons for it's 2 Ex-Hamilton Class Ships ...



New Equipment For Navy Ships
By ELENA L. ABEN
September 8, 2012, 8:25pm

MANILA, Philippines — A top defense official said the Hamilton-class cutters of the Philippine Navy (PN) will get sophisticated radars and an anti-ship missile system to make the vessels more capable of engaging intruders to Philippine territorial waters.

According to the official, the BRP Gregorio Del Pilar and the soon-to-arrive BRP Ramon Alcaraz, will be equipped with Harpoon, an anti-ship missile system, and will also be fitted with more sophisticated radars capable of detecting and tracking incoming surface threats and anti-missile and torpedo decoying systems.

Re: ASEAN military news

The 1st Image of the Kilo Class Submarine Project 636.1 for Vietnam Navy has Been Published ...



07 September 2012
The First Images of the Kilo Submarine for Vietnam Navy


Forum airbase.ru of Russia has published the first images of Kilo class diesel-electric submarines of Project 636.1. This is the first submarine of six Kilo submarines shipbuilding contract for a customer in South East Asia.

Earlier, the Russian media announced that information Kilo submarines for Southeast Asian partners was launched on 28/8 last at JSC the shipyard Admiratly in St. Petersburg.

Re: ASEAN military news

rhino123 said:

Need I spell it out for you?



Unless I misunderstand you, you implied that I let my own nationalistic pride blind realty and when I say being blind patriote I didn't mean literally :rolleye:



and many many other posts whereby I have never ever touch on anything that is against China or what, but you have been implying this,



Oh... and this,



When did I ever compare Vietnam to China... it is a simple and logical sense, China can do alot of things when they are still poor, you haven't really tell me why Vietnam can't. All you can say is, Vietnam do not have the population, the technology base (which I already tell you Vietnam had the population, she might not have the technology base, but so is China, but that does not stop China from getting up to where she was now? Why would anything stop Vietnam from rising too?) All you can say is Vietnam don't have the wealth... and I refrute you saying that China don't have the wealth too when she accomplish many stuff. And I needed to remind YOU that, in almost every post, you have steered away my original meaning to country vs country, go and read up and don't ask me to quote, I am getting pretty tire of doing all those stuff.

As to questioning me on why I think Vietnam will follow China's model... when did I say Vietnam will do that? I say Vietnam might follow China's footstep. In the past, China did import most of their materials and equipments from other country, then they go through the phase - to license built these equipments, and finally to their own R&D. Vietnam might be able to do that too. AT this present moment, they might not have the capability, but I go ahead and quote you some of Vietnam's own R&D, and I noted that they built their own MBT (might not be on par with world standards) and I quote that they have good habour too. Tell me, if you were a shipping company, would you hand your design to some backward harbour or pier or whatever you choose to call it to manufacture your ships? Obviously the shipping industry is quite good for the Vietnamese to secure some contracts to build ships for the South Koreans.

Oh... and Vietnamese built a few gunboats plus logistic ships for their own Navy too.

I am not calling any proof of anything, I am saying that Vietnam had their own R&D, small maybe, but it was definitely there... and will grow whether you like it or not.

As to your bet, fine... lets do that. We can track whatever you want... if that would make you happy.

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(Vietnam to produce components for Scud Missile fuel)

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

(unless it is a fake, then well... Vietnam is receiving Russia help in some aspect of the Naval R&D)

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

(Vietnam is building missiles boats on license from Russia and with Russian's assistance - this proof my point in saying that if Vietnam wanted, she could get the help she need from Russia. And that she is already starting to license built weaponries, this is the first step to becoming self sufficient)

Latest news flash, Vietnam is poise as the first ASEAN country to have nuclear power plants.... but that doesn't matter does it? These nuclear power plants will most probably be from other countries and Vietnam is still a poor piece of soil.

Click to expand...

I see what you are trying to do here, you said China did this, and so can Vietnam, then I said Vietnam cannot because of the limiation, then you bring up the example of small naiton that can such as Sweden, but when I bring up a list of nations that purcahsed Soviet/RUssia weapon which are similar to Vietnam's background but never produce anything on thier own, you of course dismiess that by saying we are talking about Vietname not Azerbaijan, Angola, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Croatia, Cuba, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Laos, Libya, Mali, Madagascar, North Korea, Romania, Serbia, Syria, Uganda, Yemen, Zambia, Algeria, Bangladesh, Belarus, Burkina Faso, Chad, Congo, Czech Republic, Finland, Georgia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Hungary, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq , Israel, Kyrgyzstan , Mongolia, Mozambique, Namibia, Nigeria, Poland, Somalia, Sudan, Tanzania, Turkmenistan, Yemen, Zimbabwe.

But do you see your hypocrisy? You don't compare those nation to Vietnam becaues it does not fit yor argument, however... you do LOVE to bring up Sweden , which have nothing to do with Vietnam to compare it with Vietnam to support your thesis that Sweden did it, so can Vietnam. However I have listed that for every 1 Sweden, there are 20 Yemen, Zambia, Algeria, Bangladesh etc..., but let us not look at that because it does not fit your argument.

And for every argument I come up with such as Vietnam is lacking technology, Vietnam is poor, then of course, your argument is that, So what? It is not impossible, every nation have to get starts somewhere, and so can Vietnam, and so did China, and if China did it, so can Vietnam. I am not even going to break down this argument's retardation level, but let me get on your boat, let me use your argument to say, you know what my friend? I think Ethiopia is the next major weapon producer, so what they are poor? China was poor when they developed the nuke, so can Ethiopia, so what they lack technology? China lack technology when they were developing nuke.


Let me do you a favor and simply the process. "So what if <insert nation> is <insert excuse>, China was <insert excuse> when they were developing <insert weaponry system>"

So by this logic, I guess Azerbaijan, Angola, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Croatia, Cuba, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Laos, Libya, Mali, Madagascar, North Korea, Romania, Serbia, Syria, Uganda, Yemen, Zambia, Algeria, Bangladesh, Belarus, Burkina Faso, Chad, Congo, Czech Republic, Finland, Georgia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Hungary, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq , Israel, Kyrgyzstan , Mongolia, Mozambique, Namibia, Nigeria, Poland, Somalia, Sudan, Tanzania, Turkmenistan, Yemen, Zimbabwe are well on their way to weapon production and self sufficiency. Oh wait.... I AM SORRY, I am not suppose to bring up that list, because it does not fit your argument, but please by all means, mention Sweden in your next post.

Oh and also in your next post, please do not deal with the points that I just bring up, please keep quoting me and say I am trying to say you are "anti China" or I am blaming you are "racist", or I am blaming that you are a "blind patriot" Because direct attack against me will help you to win the argument. Just like the way we attack politician's personal life to prove that he will be bad at his job.

Or how about this?

Let us take a bet, I am willing to put up 1000 US dollars on the tables.

Within the next 5 years Vietnam will come up with their own MBT which is on the world stand level, or better than what they would purchase on the open market.

Within the next 10 years Vietnam will come up with their own frig or destroyer of 1000+ displacement which is of world stand, or better than what they would purchase on the open market.

Within the next 10 years Vietnam will produce their own submarines, or better than what they would purchase on the open market.

I mean China did it, so can <Insert nation>right? Stay on this forum and we'll see. PM your real name and address, I'll do the same, get the money ready.

Re: ASEAN military news

jackliu said:

I see what you are trying to do here, you said China did this, and so can Vietnam, then I said Vietnam cannot because of the limiation, then you bring up the example of small naiton that can such as Sweden, but when I bring up a list of nations that purcahsed Soviet/RUssia weapon which are similar to Vietnam's background but never produce anything on thier own, you of course dismiess that by saying we are talking about Vietname not Azerbaijan, Angola, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Croatia, Cuba, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Laos, Libya, Mali, Madagascar, North Korea, Romania, Serbia, Syria, Uganda, Yemen, Zambia, Algeria, Bangladesh, Belarus, Burkina Faso, Chad, Congo, Czech Republic, Finland, Georgia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Hungary, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq , Israel, Kyrgyzstan , Mongolia, Mozambique, Namibia, Nigeria, Poland, Somalia, Sudan, Tanzania, Turkmenistan, Yemen, Zimbabwe.

But do you see your hypocrisy? You don't compare those nation to Vietnam becaues it does not fit yor argument, however... you do LOVE to bring up Sweden , which have nothing to do with Vietnam to compare it with Vietnam to support your thesis that Sweden did it, so can Vietnam. However I have listed that for every 1 Sweden, there are 20 Yemen, Zambia, Algeria, Bangladesh etc..., but let us not look at that because it does not fit your argument.

And for every argument I come up with such as Vietnam is lacking technology, Vietnam is poor, then of course, your argument is that, So what? It is not impossible, every nation have to get starts somewhere, and so can Vietnam, and so did China, and if China did it, so can Vietnam. I am not even going to break down this argument's retardation level, but let me get on your boat, let me use your argument to say, you know what my friend? I think Ethiopia is the next major weapon producer, so what they are poor? China was poor when they developed the nuke, so can Ethiopia, so what they lack technology? China lack technology when they were developing nuke.


Let me do you a favor and simply the process. "So what if <insert nation> is <insert excuse>, China was <insert excuse> when they were developing <insert weaponry system>"

So by this logic, I guess Azerbaijan, Angola, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Croatia, Cuba, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Laos, Libya, Mali, Madagascar, North Korea, Romania, Serbia, Syria, Uganda, Yemen, Zambia, Algeria, Bangladesh, Belarus, Burkina Faso, Chad, Congo, Czech Republic, Finland, Georgia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Hungary, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq , Israel, Kyrgyzstan , Mongolia, Mozambique, Namibia, Nigeria, Poland, Somalia, Sudan, Tanzania, Turkmenistan, Yemen, Zimbabwe are well on their way to weapon production and self sufficiency. Oh wait.... I AM SORRY, I am not suppose to bring up that list, because it does not fit your argument, but please by all means, mention Sweden in your next post.

Oh and also in your next post, please do not deal with the points that I just bring up, please keep quoting me and say I am trying to say you are "anti China" or I am blaming you are "racist", or I am blaming that you are a "blind patriot" Because direct attack against me will help you to win the argument. Just like the way we attack politician's personal life to prove that he will be bad at his job.

Or how about this?

Let us take a bet, I am willing to put up 1000 US dollars on the tables.

Within the next 5 years Vietnam will come up with their own MBT which is on the world stand level, or better than what they would purchase on the open market.

Within the next 10 years Vietnam will come up with their own frig or destroyer of 1000+ displacement which is of world stand, or better than what they would purchase on the open market.

Within the next 10 years Vietnam will produce their own submarines, or better than what they would purchase on the open market.

I mean China did it, so can <Insert nation>right? Stay on this forum and we'll see. PM your real name and address, I'll do the same, get the money ready.

edit, oh and sorry, one more thing, since you love to call me to call you <insert insult> so that people can feel sorry for you, let me give you some fuel some for your next post, I think you are a moron, a retard and an idiot, now please don't disappoint me, go ahead add that in the next post, I am sure by making me look bad will prove your point that China did it, so will Vietnam.

Click to expand...

I don't know what you are trying to get? We are talking about similarity of Vietnam and China right, or have I miss something? I say that Vietnam had its own research base, Vietnam's economy is rosy (although you keep saying Vietnam is poor) and Vietnam had big population while you keep saying Vietnam lack of population... so I get ONTO your boat and tell you that when China did all the feats in the 60s, she is not exactly rich too, when Sweden did her feat she doesn't really have massive population and was also not exactly that rich either.

Then you start pulling in other countries which had less simitarity and in other parts of the world, and you forcefully claimed that they are the same as Vietnam?

I give you examples and quotations and up till now you provide nothing. And then you start throwing tandrum, and now wanted to start a wager? Frankly... that is so childish and I see this debate going nowhere when people start showing their biase... plus I already agreed that we can track Vietnam's record... that is not enough for you... what? Trying to make quick bucks here, right... or are you a kid?

If you stick on what you have claim, maybe you are the one who should be showing proof of Vietnam's incapability of doing their own research and development, rather than keep wanting me to provide free service to you by coming up with references.

How about that? Show us proof that Vietnam was poor (well internet sources said that Vietnam is doing pretty well economically), not capable of doing their own research and coming up with homegrown system.

If you cannot provide any proof or reference, then perhaps you can refrain yourself from coming in here and barking at me at every turn like coming up with childish terms, making false claims that I am being hard on China, making blind accusation that I am a Vietnamese (in your first or second post directed at me), and now forcing a wager in a public forum (which as and when I refuses, lets see what is your reaction, huh) etc, etc.

Re: ASEAN military news

rhino123 said:

I don't know what you are trying to get? We are talking about similarity of Vietnam and China right, or have I miss something? I say that Vietnam had its own research base, Vietnam's economy is rosy (although you keep saying Vietnam is poor) and Vietnam had big population while you keep saying Vietnam lack of population... so I get ONTO your boat and tell you that when China did all the feats in the 60s, she is not exactly rich too, when Sweden did her feat she doesn't really have massive population and was also not exactly that rich either.

Then you start pulling in other countries which had less simitarity and in other parts of the world, and you forcefully claimed that they are the same as Vietnam?

I give you examples and quotations and up till now you provide nothing. And then you start throwing tandrum, and now wanted to start a wager? Frankly... that is so childish and I see this debate going nowhere when people start showing their biase... plus I already agreed that we can track Vietnam's record... that is not enough for you... what? Trying to make quick bucks here, right... or are you a kid?

If you stick on what you have claim, maybe you are the one who should be showing proof of Vietnam's incapability of doing their own research and development, rather than keep wanting me to provide free service to you by coming up with references.

How about that? Show us proof that Vietnam was poor (well internet sources said that Vietnam is doing pretty well economically), not capable of doing their own research and coming up with homegrown system.

If you cannot provide any proof or reference, then perhaps you can refrain yourself from coming in here and barking at me at every turn like coming up with childish terms, making false claims that I am being hard on China, making blind accusation that I am a Vietnamese (in your first or second post directed at me), and now forcing a wager in a public forum (which as and when I refuses, lets see what is your reaction, huh) etc, etc.

Click to expand...

Ok, let me summarize this post, keep comparing Vietnam to China "China did it, so can Vietnam" "China <insert accomplishment>, under <insert historical background> so can Vietnam" I mean... please, this is getting embarrassing.

And please, find the direct quote of me saying Vietnam lacking population, I never even mention population whatsoever, you are the one going on and on about population, and since I didn't say anything about population, therefore in your mind I must be saying "Vietnam lack population right" I mean it is in your mind, so it must be true.

Oh and yes, Swedan again, thank you very much, Sweden, an European nation in Northern Europe is the only country that is similar to Vietnam therefore we must use Sweden to compare to Vietnam, and out of all the hundreds of nations on earth which have purchased weapon from USA/Russia are all of course by default very different from Sweden, and therefore different form Vietnam, and therefore only Sweden can be compared to Vietnam because Sweden build their own jet fighter, while hundreds of others didn't, so we cannot use that as an example to compare to Vietnam. And yes, you are reading this and see there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, I mean come on, Sweden and Vietnam, they are basically the same you know, just they have more in common than US and UK right? Because Sweden build the Griffin, so I guess that makes them brother in your mind. While all other nations on earth is not allowed to be compared to Vietnam.

OH and of course, thank you again for answer my prayer, more personal attack, "childish" this time huh? I expected more.

OH and of course, as expected you are not responding to any of my point directly, but instead just repeating what you have said over and over again if you have nothign to reply. So I will bring up this point again.

So please, let us contine on your logic that "China did it, so will Vietnam" But this time, let us expand more on this

"So what if <insert nation> is <insert excuse>, China was <insert excuse> when they were developing <insert weaponry system>"


Let's be fair, let's not leave Vietnam out of it, I have a list of nations that can plug into that formula, I want to start with Ethiopia, and what you got against Ethiopia?

Oh and as for data, let us see how is "Vietnam is doing pretty well economically"


Notice the "Vietnam is doing pretty well economically" ranked 57 out of 191, yes I can see they are doing well.

But, to be fair, you have mentioned Vietnam populations as an advantage many times, and me, being so insensitive just ignore that, so I want to say sorry, and let's take this population advantage into GDP consideration, so let's compare GDP per capita

Notice the "Vietnam is doing pretty well economically" is ranked 141 out of 191

As for your accusing of me saying Vietnam is "not capable of doing their own research and coming up with homegrown system" You do know this is a retarded accusation right? Because ALL nations are earth is capable of doing their own research and coming up with homegrown system, but come up with your own version of AK-47 is NOT the same as coming up with your own Kilo submarine. So I have said this before which you have ignored, designing an AK-47 is not on the same level as designing an Su-27. But if you want to argue that any weapon system qualifies, that if you can design one weapon system, therefore you can design any weapon system... then I really have nothing to say.

Again... I NEVER said Vietnam is "not capable of doing their own research and coming up with homegrown system", all I am saying is Vietnam is lacking behind in technology, it will be almost impossible for them to catch up, even if they pour all of their effort into R&D, chances are they will still come up with inferior products, because the technology leaders will have more resources and they will keep improving their system.

Or you know what? Let's play this game again. "So what if <insert nation> is <insert excuse>, China was <insert excuse> when they were developing <insert weaponry system>"


Show me that all of those country are "not capable of doing their own research and coming up with homegrown system"

Azerbaijan, Angola, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Croatia, Cuba, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Laos, Libya, Mali, Madagascar, North Korea, Romania, Serbia, Syria, Uganda, Yemen, Zambia, Algeria, Bangladesh, Belarus, Burkina Faso, Chad, Congo, Czech Republic, Finland, Georgia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Hungary, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq , Israel, Kyrgyzstan , Mongolia, Mozambique, Namibia, Nigeria, Poland, Somalia, Sudan, Tanzania, Turkmenistan, Yemen, Zimbabwe.

Let's play this game again, in my last post I predicted 4 things that you would post in this post.
1. China did it, so can Vietnam.
2. Only Sweden is allowed to be comped with Vietnam, and all other nations are not.
3. Personal attacks, name calling.
4. Ignore the issue as much as possible while repeating what you have said over and over again.

So for your next post, I predict you will do these following this.
1. China did it, so can Vietnam
2. Further explaining why Sweden is unique qualified to compare to Vietnam while all the nations on earth that have not produce their own weapon system are not not qualified.
3. Of course, more personal attacks
4. Ignore the issue as much as possible while focus on point 1-3
5. Refuse to play the "So what if <insert nation> is <insert excuse>, China was <insert excuse> when they were developing <insert weaponry system>"

6. Totally ignore Ethiopia, which I have high hopes on being the world next major weapon producer.