Re: ASEAN military news
Alright for the last time, the only argument you got is that China and Vietnam both imported weapon from Russia, and China decided to reverse engineer on their own, and by this logic so will Vietnam, also by this logic there are over 100 nation have purchased weapon from Russia, and they will also reverse engineering on their own right?
I already explain to you why Vietnam is unlikely to produce their own significant military hardware due to historical reason, their lack of technology base, lack of technology, lack of population, lack of industry, lack of money, and yet, you keep giving me example of China did this and China did that and therefore Vietnam will do this and Vietnam will do that, but I want to tell you something.
VIETNAM IS NOT CHINA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They may look Asian, they may have smilar culture, but they are NOT the same people, please do not jusity that what you think Vietnam will do base on what China already did. Why do you have such a hard on for China????
As for the R&D, you still hav not answer my quesiton, why should Vietnam spend billion in R&D to produce their own ships, figher jet which will be inevitably inferior than the existing ones when they can purchase on the open market? And this is not Vietnam is inferior nation, it is just that you don't produce top of the line weaponry over night from research, and for a complex weapon system, you would need more than just pouring money into to make it work.
I have no idea what is your obsession with China and keep compaing China with Vietnam, why have you not compare China to Azerbaijan, Angola, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Croatia, Cuba, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Laos, Libya, Mali, Madagascar, North Korea, Romania, Serbia, Syria, Uganda, Yemen, Zambia, Algeria, Bangladesh, Belarus, Burkina Faso, Chad, Congo, Czech Republic, Finland, Georgia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Hungary, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq , Israel, Kyrgyzstan , Mongolia, Mozambique, Namibia, Nigeria, Poland, Somalia, Sudan, Tanzania, Turkmenistan, Yemen, Zimbabwe.
ALL of them purchased hardware from Russia, all of them at various stages in the past and present are more/less wealher, more/less capable than Vietnam, so by this logic should all of them produce their own fighter jet? Submarines, warships?
Your argument is weak for everything I have said, you simply dismess it and argue that is NOT impossible, you know what? By this logic everything in the damn world is not impossible, but are they LIKELY to happen?? NO
This is what I am trying to say, yes Vietnam CAN, WOULD, MIGHT do this or that, but all indication and trend show it is NOT. I have no idea why you want to make it seems Vietnam is on the verge of something in the future or they will do exactly what China do.
First thing... SHOUTING DOES NOT MAKE YOUR POINTS RIGHT.
Second thing... nothing... absolutely nothing did I mention that make me hard on ANY COUNTRY. Seriously... I really do not know what make you think I am anti China or what. I just said that Vietnam might follow China route, I didn't say anything about China being overtaken or what. I mean... for CRYING OUT LOUD, COME ON! WHY in this freaking world did you KEEP twisting what I have mentioned?
I have answer all your question... I don't know what is there to answer anymore...
First, you say Vietnam didn't historically have the capability to built military hardware, I say they have... they built vehicles and small arms, and by whatever standards you chose to call them, these things are military hardware, what is so difficult to understand? Vietnam build naval equipment too, they have logistic ships called Spratley Class or something like that, they have some small gunboats. They have civilians contracts to build ships (although design by South Korean), what is the problem with understanding that?
You say Vietnam didn't have that population... I told you that Vietnam had 90+ million population, it is not small and I even go so far as to give you an example - Sweden had lesser population and they design and built the Gripen. True, you argued that they have better education, I say, education don't fall from the sky, you have to start somewhere... or are you suggesting that just because it is ASEAN or Asia country that Vietnam general population would not reach the educational level of Western countries?
And nobody say anything about Vietnam was China (when in the bloody world did I even slightly mentioned that?) I just said that Vietnam might follow China's route.
As for all your questions about why should Vietnam spend billions in R&D, I believe I already answer your questions IF ONLY YOU CARE TO READ, instead of branding me as anti-China.
To make it easy for you, I quote what I have said before,
Who say result from R&D was just pure cost? If not for R&D, where did all the weapons (US, Europe, Russian, China) came from? Without these weapons, where in the world would all these armament export and market came from. As to your mentioning of inferior products... it is even more childish. If by your logic, then China shouldn't even bother with anything, their previous attempts at the fighters (such as the J-8) is not exactly that incredible.... and when compared to the Russian products... they are inferior... however the chinese learned from all these and came up with better products like the J-10, JH-7 and even the FC-1.
Plus, I refrute what you mentioned,
I already explain to you why Vietnam is unlikely to produce their own significant military hardware due to historical reason, their lack of technology base, lack of technology, lack of population, lack of industry, lack of money, and yet, you keep giving me example of China did this and China did that and therefore Vietnam will do this and Vietnam will do that, but I want to tell you something.
Historical reason? What historical reason? Embargoment from US? Sorry, that embargoment had been lifted, Vietnam also had no trouble getting help from Russia and even China if they wanted. Lack of technology base? I spit on that. When China started off their own R&D, do they have massive technological base? Lack of population, 90+ million too little for you? Lack of money - when China started their nuclear warhead R&D, they are mightily rich?
Finally, I didn't say whatever China did, Vietnam will do... read deeper, try to understand what I have mentioned, I said that in those condition, China could achieve what she had... Vietnam could too. And if you care to digest what I have written instead of jumping all over the place and brand me as anti-China, there is many way Vietnam could take and in the end, ended up at the same spot, doesn't need to copy or do whatever China did.
I also quote from you,
I have no idea what is your obsession with China and keep compaing China with Vietnam, why have you not compare China to Azerbaijan, Angola, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Croatia, Cuba, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Laos, Libya, Mali, Madagascar, North Korea, Romania, Serbia, Syria, Uganda, Yemen, Zambia, Algeria, Bangladesh, Belarus, Burkina Faso, Chad, Congo, Czech Republic, Finland, Georgia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Hungary, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq , Israel, Kyrgyzstan , Mongolia, Mozambique, Namibia, Nigeria, Poland, Somalia, Sudan, Tanzania, Turkmenistan, Yemen, Zimbabwe.
Sorry to say this, "this is the silliest retort anyone could come up." I mentioned that Vietnam would follow China route, obviously I need to refer Vietnam to China's development, why in the world would I go to compare all those country you mentioned? I am not obsess, YOU ARE THE ONE OBESSESS WITH CALLING AND BRANDING ME ANTI-CHINA, and for the love of christ, stop doing that.
Your arguement is by far the weakest, you provide no proof, no reference, nothing. I told you it was not impossible and I took the time to produce some references as to the R&D effort and some products from Vietnam, I even explained some of the things to you, patiently. But instead of sitting down and discuss things like an adult, first,
1) you call me a blind patriot
2) You resort to suggesting talking to me is like talking to a wall while in my defence, I give you some references,
3) You brand me as Anti China, you go as far as making childish comments on some super duper thingies which is hardly constructive.
4) You kept steering my comments to make me look as if I am anti-china or wanting to start a country vs country debate.
Well let me tell you this pal, you FAIL. You are the one that need to support what you have said and not come up with all these useless shouts.
Finally... I never at any one time say that Vietnam is doing it now or what, I am saying that Vietnam might follow, because of the given circumstances. And I am saying that it would be arrogant and downright ignorant to simply discount Vietnam as a country that can only buy from others.
