Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

resistance · Dec 15, 2022

Arnies said:
Okay what does this has to do with what I said? You are just trolling in my honest opinion and you are throwing stuff around and wanna see what sticks..

I didn't troll, I just demonstrate that how turkey is the only country in middle east that is a threat to china.
Also I never say They claim xinjiang, but they support separatist and want Turkic state from china

Arnies · Dec 15, 2022

resistance said:
I didn't troll, I just demonstrate that how turkey is the only country in middle east that is a threat to china

I guess whatever rocks your boat.. It appears more like as if you want them to officially lay claim on parts

resistance · Dec 15, 2022

Minm said:
Saudi Arabia doesn't speak for the Sunni Arab world. Why is this so hard to understand? Saudi Arabia's allies are Egypt and the UAE, maybe Kuwait, Jordan and Oman. That's not many countries. Iran's allies are Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, maybe Tajikistan and Afghanistan. They are poorer today, but that wasn't always the case. Just imagine the potential for oil: If Iran and Iraq were producing at full capacity again, oil prices would drop substantially and many American producers would be forced out of the market.

China's strength has always been to treat all countries with respect and this respect is returned by most global south countries.

If you can't see things from the others perspective, you won't have a productive relationship. If China actually acted like it were entitled to smaller countries doing as China says, then none would want to choose China's side against the US.

Pakistan won't be any more successful in the absence of Chabahar. Iranian energy for Pakistan would likely be much more significant to rescue Pakistan from failing completely. Why hasn't Pakistan built the gas pipeline to connect to Iran?

Do you realise that they were only allowed to do this because they were an American ally? If they become a Chinese ally and invade a neighbour, they'll be sanctioned immediately. They know this of course, so they will never become as anti west as Iran is. They're scared of being sanctioned and if your attitude is widespread in China they'll also know that China won't protect them from western sanctions. So they'll refuse to pick a side and trade with both east and west.

Iran isn't useful because its market is significant. It's a small economy and so is Saudi Arabia. Saudi oil and Qatari gas make a difference for China, their consumer markets not so much. Iran has been a centre of American foreign policy for decades. They've spent vast amounts of political capital to get other countries to sanction Iran. This has let others, including China, develop in peace while the US was busy in the middle east. China should support countries like Iran, North Korea, Myanmar and now Russia that face western pressure. This will discourage new sanctions against other countries that are considering siding with China. Why should a country like Kazakhstan align with China if China will bin the relationship for the hope of some more exports somewhere else?

It's also quite dangerous not to support countries that want to be your allies when they face outside or domestic challenges. If Iran has a colour revolution and flips to the other side, China would have a huge problem. You can already see that the Saudi ruling family is extremely unpopular in the west while the Iranian women are described as heroes. If there's another revolution in Iran and it aligns with the west, China wouldn't benefit. China should always ensure that the other country feels it benefits from the relationship

I support that china should treat all middle east with respect except turkey, a pawn of NATO.

Arnies · Dec 15, 2022

resistance said:
I support that china should treat all middle east with respect except turkey, a pawn of NATO.

I don't know maybe perhaps Turkey should officially lay claim and try to seize in the midst of chaos and why stop there why not lay claim on Shenzhen seems like more interesting climate.. Maybe China has wonders natural resources that you are withholding as secret

resistance · Dec 15, 2022

Arnies said:
Okay.. A country who has good diplomatic relations with china and not to forget is 5000km+ away and doesn't claim any territories of that said far away land is somehow a threat? I guess whatever rocks your boat.. It appears more like as if you want them to officially lay claim on parts

They don't lay claims, but they support separatist based on pan Turkism. US and EU is also 5000 km and no claims on Chinese territory but they still attack china the same way. They all want east Turkestan and you can see why turkey host them.

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Arnies · Dec 15, 2022

resistance said:
They don't lay claims, but they support separatist based on pan Turkism. US and EU is also 5000 km and no claims on Chinese territory but they still attack china the same way. They all want east Turkestan and you can see why turkey host them.

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These countries are democracies anyone can take out a flag and take photos with it and walk the streets with it but no official state actors a behind any bid to separation or support. It's just mythology. Ask the Americans they will even tell you we support 1 china policy.. That area is twice the size of germany.. If Turkey was officially hosting them or calling for separation then Turkey-China would have cut all diplomatic relations long time ago and recall ambassadors and cut all communications..

Pan Turkism is popular amongst right-wing nationalists in some turkic countries who even say parts of Russia bordering Alaska is turkic

resistance · Dec 15, 2022

Arnies said:
These countries are democracies anyone can take out a flag and take photos with it and walk the streets with it but no official state actors a behind any bid to separation or support. It's just mythology. Ask the Americans they will even tell you we support 1 china policy.. That area is twice the size of germany

This is turkey official statement on Chinese security affairs on xinjiang. This is not just people in democracy but gov which join US.

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Are you gonna say US is not enemies with china too?

Arnies · Dec 15, 2022

resistance said:
This is turkey official statement on Chinese security affairs on xinjiang. This is not just people but gov which join US.

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Are you gonna say US is not enemies with china too?

If there is rumours of turmoil that is the right response to express concern and to urge parties to treat each other with respect...

But I wasted time here.. Last message you said separation, wanting to take parts of land etc etc claiming territory?

These are different stuff and you have been moving subjects

tphuang · Dec 15, 2022

SDtom said:
Because fair relationship is better, lasts longer, and creates better respects for each other. Iran is pariah in a sense that China is because of biased media attacks and propaganda against it but Iran is less able to defend itself economically, politically and militarily. China will works the best ways it can with Iran and it will not backstab/disadvantages Iran for any possible gain from Saudi Arabia.

China will do what's good for itself and being equal with Iran and all the Arab nations will limit the ceiling to its relationship with Arab nations. It's far more important for China to have good relationship with Arab nations. Until Iran's liberal wing is willing to embrace China (they have shown no willingness to do so), China simply doesn't have a reliable partner in Iran.

Minm said:
Saudi Arabia doesn't speak for the Sunni Arab world. Why is this so hard to understand? Saudi Arabia's allies are Egypt and the UAE, maybe Kuwait, Jordan and Oman. That's not many countries. Iran's allies are Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, maybe Tajikistan and Afghanistan. They are poorer today, but that wasn't always the case. Just imagine the potential for oil: If Iran and Iraq were producing at full capacity again, oil prices would drop substantially and many American producers would be forced out of the market.

The Saudis are the leaders of the Arab nations and UAE after them. The entire OPEC+ follows the direction of the Saudis and UAE. Just look at how Saudis were able to bring so many Arab nations over to meet with China. Iran has no allies except for its shiite proxies in those countries. The non-shiites in Iraq, syria and Lebanon certain do not want any part of Iran.

You can keep loving Iran as much as you want, but China has clearly picked sides here. The Iranians recognizes it and have complained. The Arab nations are loving it. UAE loves China's statement about Iran.

Minm said:
China's strength has always been to treat all countries with respect and this respect is returned by most global south countries.

keep preaching this nonsense. China has picked its side. Live with it.

Minm said:
If you can't see things from the others perspective, you won't have a productive relationship. If China actually acted like it were entitled to smaller countries doing as China says, then none would want to choose China's side against the US.

most small countries aren't Iran. Iran has no friends. Until Iran is willing to be more accommodating to China, it won't get more Chinese support. The liberals in Iran are willing to turn on China at the slightest sign of respect from the West. Why should China care about someone like that?

Minm said:
Pakistan won't be any more successful in the absence of Chabahar. Iranian energy for Pakistan would likely be much more significant to rescue Pakistan from failing completely. Why hasn't Pakistan built the gas pipeline to connect to Iran?

hmm, Pakistan will be getting energy from Russia. Why don't you let Pakistan figure its own economy out? Gwadar project definitely won't be successful if Chabahar becomes successful. It could be successful otherwise. Until Iran aligns itself 100% with China, there is no reason for China to be better to them. Why is this so hard to understand?

Minm said:
Do you realise that they were only allowed to do this because they were an American ally? If they become a Chinese ally and invade a neighbour, they'll be sanctioned immediately. They know this of course, so they will never become as anti west as Iran is. They're scared of being sanctioned and if your attitude is widespread in China they'll also know that China won't protect them from western sanctions. So they'll refuse to pick a side and trade with both east and west.

Iran is only "anti-west" because the west has rejected them completely. The liberal wing doesn't have any respect for China. Even the conservative wing prefers Russia. Have you seen them buying Chinese weapons or are they buying Russian ones?

Minm said:
Iran isn't useful because its market is significant. It's a small economy and so is Saudi Arabia. Saudi oil and Qatari gas make a difference for China, their consumer markets not so much. Iran has been a centre of American foreign policy for decades. They've spent vast amounts of political capital to get other countries to sanction Iran. This has let others, including China, develop in peace while the US was busy in the middle east. China should support countries like Iran, North Korea, Myanmar and now Russia that face western pressure. This will discourage new sanctions against other countries that are considering siding with China. Why should a country like Kazakhstan align with China if China will bin the relationship for the hope of some more exports somewhere else?

Arab countries are huge compared to Iran when it comes to size of economy, votes in UN and land area. They are not the same. If they were the same, China would not need to pick Arab nations over Iran.

Minm said:
It's also quite dangerous not to support countries that want to be your allies when they face outside or domestic challenges. If Iran has a colour revolution and flips to the other side, China would have a huge problem. You can already see that the Saudi ruling family is extremely unpopular in the west while the Iranian women are described as heroes. If there's another revolution in Iran and it aligns with the west, China wouldn't benefit. China should always ensure that the other country feels it benefits from the relationship

There we go. Now you admit that Iran doesn't actually want to be friends with China. They will abandon China the moment Western countries show them any favor.

Whether you like it or not, China has picked Sunni Arab countries over Iran. I've made my points already. Any further responses seem to be going nowhere.

resistance said:
What I talk about is the group that attack china in Afghanistan is the same ISIS turkey funded and trained in Syria. Also, turkey with NATO support using pan Turkism to invite separatist can cause huge blow to Chinese security. For now, It's seems like china don't care about turkey. And china should prioritize Iran over turkey since Iran stands on their ways to effectively fund their terrorists in Afghanistan for attacking china.
So I think the highest success on china middle east policy is making Iran and GCC join hands against turkey.

What are you talking about? The #1 country that can help China and Talibans to control Uyghur in Afghanistan is Pakistan. I have read several articles on this and Iranian involvement has never stood out as being all that important. Turkey right now is basically neutral player for China. China also runs a huge trading surplus against Turkey. Longer term, Turkey is good ally to have in Eurasia for many reasons.

resistance · Dec 15, 2022

Arnies said:
If there is rumours of turmoil that is the right response to express concern and to urge parties to treat each other with respect...

But I wasted time here.. Last message you said separation, wanting to take parts of land etc etc claiming territory?

These are different stuff and you have been moving subjects

Interference of internal affairs especially in separatism area is mean incitement of separatism. Turkey don't want to get xinjiang as their province but want east Turkestan which is why they don't have claims.

Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

resistance

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Arnies

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resistance

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Arnies

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resistance

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Arnies

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resistance

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Arnies

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tphuang

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resistance

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