Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
Iran is one country and Sunni Arab world is many countries. Iran is a pariah. China can keep trading with Iran, but only if the term is in China's favor.
Saudi Arabia doesn't speak for the Sunni Arab world. Why is this so hard to understand? Saudi Arabia's allies are Egypt and the UAE, maybe Kuwait, Jordan and Oman. That's not many countries. Iran's allies are Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, maybe Tajikistan and Afghanistan. They are poorer today, but that wasn't always the case. Just imagine the potential for oil: If Iran and Iraq were producing at full capacity again, oil prices would drop substantially and many American producers would be forced out of the market.

China's strength has always been to treat all countries with respect and this respect is returned by most global south countries.

You want to look at things from Iran's perspective. I frankly don't care about their feelings or anything like that
If you can't see things from the others perspective, you won't have a productive relationship. If China actually acted like it were entitled to smaller countries doing as China says, then none would want to choose China's side against the US.

lol, the Pakistan military is entirely aligned with China. If you don't know what you are talking about, don't trash China's most loyal partner. I don't care if CPEC is progressing slowly due to domestic Pakistani incompetence. I do care that the presence of Chabahar will make it tougher to Gwadar. So, I want to make sure China's investment in Gwadar can work over time and that will partly involve undercutting Chabahar.
Pakistan won't be any more successful in the absence of Chabahar. Iranian energy for Pakistan would likely be much more significant to rescue Pakistan from failing completely. Why hasn't Pakistan built the gas pipeline to connect to Iran?

Wonderful, that's exactly the kind of strongman gov't that would work with China.
Do you realise that they were only allowed to do this because they were an American ally? If they become a Chinese ally and invade a neighbour, they'll be sanctioned immediately. They know this of course, so they will never become as anti west as Iran is. They're scared of being sanctioned and if your attitude is widespread in China they'll also know that China won't protect them from western sanctions. So they'll refuse to pick a side and trade with both east and west.

Iran last cards were JCPOA which would allow Chinese companies to capture the Iranian market, and Iran being anti-west.

So lets see where we are now, JCPOA is dead, and the Gulf States are now moving out of the American orbit themselves. If before, China only had Iran to balance US influence in Middle East, now it is starting to have the Gulf States as well.

Supply and Demand. Before we had 1 supplier of anti-western camp, now we are getting more and more countries trying to balance out US influence.
Iran isn't useful because its market is significant. It's a small economy and so is Saudi Arabia. Saudi oil and Qatari gas make a difference for China, their consumer markets not so much. Iran has been a centre of American foreign policy for decades. They've spent vast amounts of political capital to get other countries to sanction Iran. This has let others, including China, develop in peace while the US was busy in the middle east. China should support countries like Iran, North Korea, Myanmar and now Russia that face western pressure. This will discourage new sanctions against other countries that are considering siding with China. Why should a country like Kazakhstan align with China if China will bin the relationship for the hope of some more exports somewhere else?

It's also quite dangerous not to support countries that want to be your allies when they face outside or domestic challenges. If Iran has a colour revolution and flips to the other side, China would have a huge problem. You can already see that the Saudi ruling family is extremely unpopular in the west while the Iranian women are described as heroes. If there's another revolution in Iran and it aligns with the west, China wouldn't benefit. China should always ensure that the other country feels it benefits from the relationship
 

resistance

Junior Member
Registered Member
This is redundant What buffer zone and what Xinjiang? Nobody has ever wanted Xinjiang or to take lands from China. Okay lets just assume someone takes Xinjiang? then who is gonna populate it some Snow leopards? because there is not enough Uighurs to populate that vast lands and some of them might even die in the liberation so now you kicked back china who is gonna populate it? Snow leopards?. The Uighurs are a very microscopically tiny minority in China which is why no muslim truly has interests in China.. 8m million want to carve a land out of 1.4 billion it is not logisitcally feasible and never was and as an example it is like the 200.000 something jews in Turkey carving out a massive land out of TURKEY.. It has never been in the calculus of any muslim state or entity.

Even the Islamic law doesn't permit war in that situation in Islam if your a insignificiant minority you can't compete for land because it is forbidden but given permission to leave that area and make something called Hijra meaning migrate if you want change if not you stay in that country and live side by side by the majority but it is prohibited to rebel against the authority on such specific areas the same in Europe and In ratio wise it would be like China trying to take parts of Indonesia for it's like few million chinese descandants who are barely 4m against the nearly 300m indonesians or muslims trying to carve out a territory the size of Texas out of the US. It has never been a thing. All this East Turkestan stuff is only coming from few disaporas in the west who are supported by the west.

There are 51 muslim majority countries and how many more countries do people assume we want? We are already overstreached and alot of empty spaces in these 51 countries already and can't be filled out? why more? the Uighurs who don't like the Chinese way of life they move away to other countries and these who like China move towards the mainland to compete for the market.

But someone wanting to take that region is nonesensical and if someone wanted you would have never stopped hearing about it and in your face type of claims and you would have known.. Forget Kashmir there is claim on all of India and the Indians know it because they have been hearing it nonstop where they just got tired of it. Not one single state lay claim on any China provinces outside of Japan
Turkey claim on xinjiang is based on pan Turks. Also those who attack china from Afghanistan is ISIS that turkey support in Syria. Just learn more about pan turk and you will understand
 
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Arnies

Junior Member
Registered Member
Saudi Arabia doesn't speak for the Sunni Arab world. Why is this so hard to understand? Saudi Arabia's allies are Egypt and the UAE, maybe Kuwait, Jordan and Oman. That's not many countries. Iran's allies are Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, maybe Tajikistan and Afghanistan. They are poorer today, but that wasn't always the case. Just imagine the potential for oil: If Iran and Iraq were producing at full capacity again, oil prices would drop substantially and many American producers would be forced out of the market.

China's strength has always been to treat all countries with respect and this respect is returned by most global south countries.


If you can't see things from the others perspective, you won't have a productive relationship. If China actually acted like it were entitled to smaller countries doing as China says, then none would want to choose China's side against the US.


Pakistan won't be any more successful in the absence of Chabahar. Iranian energy for Pakistan would likely be much more significant to rescue Pakistan from failing completely. Why hasn't Pakistan built the gas pipeline to connect to Iran?


Do you realise that they were only allowed to do this because they were an American ally? If they become a Chinese ally and invade a neighbour, they'll be sanctioned immediately. They know this of course, so they will never become as anti west as Iran is. They're scared of being sanctioned and if your attitude is widespread in China they'll also know that China won't protect them from western sanctions. So they'll refuse to pick a side and trade with both east and west.


Iran isn't useful because its market is significant. It's a small economy and so is Saudi Arabia. Saudi oil and Qatari gas make a difference for China, their consumer markets not so much. Iran has been a centre of American foreign policy for decades. They've spent vast amounts of political capital to get other countries to sanction Iran. This has let others, including China, develop in peace while the US was busy in the middle east. China should support countries like Iran, North Korea, Myanmar and now Russia that face western pressure. This will discourage new sanctions against other countries that are considering siding with China. Why should a country like Kazakhstan align with China if China will bin the relationship for the hope of some more exports somewhere else?

It's also quite dangerous not to support countries that want to be your allies when they face outside or domestic challenges. If Iran has a colour revolution and flips to the other side, China would have a huge problem. You can already see that the Saudi ruling family is extremely unpopular in the west while the Iranian women are described as heroes. If there's another revolution in Iran and it aligns with the west, China wouldn't benefit. China should always ensure that the other country feels it benefits from the relationship

Saudi Doesn't speak for anyone but they speak for them which is the opposite but either way the core Saudi inner axis are the following UAE, Egypt, Morocco, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman, Sudan, Jordan and on top of that Pakistan.. Iraq is is unstable and the Saudis have more influence then Iran currently cause Iran's main influence is some unsanctioned militias in Iraq not the main gov't state actor. Influence wise they can't be compared in the area and region..

Lets say Iran was to flip? What difference will it do? Do you really think the west will ever chose Iran over KSA and it's vaste influence on the Sunni muslim countries over Iran? and Hand over a vastely numerous countries to the other camp.. They will never do this not in this life-time. If Iran flips into liberalism they will become Allies with the Saudis themselves first of all. But the US or west will never chose Iran over KSA.

Heck if they did they wouldn't even benefit Iran instead it would create trade blockade on the US and vice versa. You will witness something like zealed off exclusive economic zones that trade with each other individually and then there is another trade bloc..

KSA and allies can't be bullied especially with sanctions it will not fly similar like a cat can't fly
 
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resistance

Junior Member
Registered Member
what are you talking about? China is developing good relationship with Turkey. The greatest threat in Xinjiang actually comes from Afghanistan right now. Hence, China needs to stabilize Afghanistan.
What I talk about is the group that attack china in Afghanistan is the same ISIS turkey funded and trained in Syria. Also, turkey with NATO support using pan Turkism to invite separatist can cause huge blow to Chinese security. For now, It's seems like china don't care about turkey. And china should prioritize Iran over turkey since Iran stands on their ways to effectively fund their terrorists in Afghanistan for attacking china.
So I think the highest success on china middle east policy is making Iran and GCC join hands against turkey.
 

Arnies

Junior Member
Registered Member
What I talk about is the group that attack china in Afghanistan is the same ISIS turkey funded and trained in Syria. Also, turkey with NATO support using pan Turkism to invite separatist can cause huge blow to Chinese security. For now, It's seems like china don't care about turkey. And china should prioritize Iran over turkey since Iran stands on their ways to effectively fund their terrorists in Afghanistan for attacking china.
So I think the highest success on china middle east policy is making Iran and GCC join hands against turkey.

You are being vague here? seems like on purpose but You are saying group attacked China in Afghanistan? What you instead mean is some ISIS elements attacked a hotel in Kabul with Chinese workers? How is that China? The Attack was even foiled by IEA
 

Arnies

Junior Member
Registered Member
Turkey claim on xinjiang is based on pan Turks. Also those who attack china from Afghanistan is ISIS that turkey support in Syria. Just learn more about pan turk and you will understand

Have turkey ever came out and said this publically we claim this? Have you ever seen a Turkish gov't official statement claim on that territory if not Stop consumming the myths. I remember last time the Turkish FM visited china he had to again and again repeat that Official line of Turkey. They aren't claiming any territories...

If Turkey was laying claim on that they would have made it known and China wouldn't have seen the day before hearing about it constantly..
 
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resistance

Junior Member
Registered Member

resistance

Junior Member
Registered Member
Have turkey ever came out and said this publically we claim this? Have you ever seen a Turkish gov't official statement claim on that territory if not Stop consumming the myths. I remember last time the Turkish FM visited china he had to again and again repeat that Official line of Turkey. They aren't claiming any territories
They are support their Turkic world. They don't have to rule it, they just need Turkic state which is also align with us intentions to separate china.
 
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