Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

getready

Senior Member
And in every case the Foreign Ministry responds with the usual "stop interfering in our domestic affairs", it just isn't reported that widely by western media. Case is, China (rightfully so) considers these kind of statements as interference in its domestic affairs
Again we have different take on actual interference of internal domestic affairs, concrete actions. Not just diplomatic statements. Iran has a view of their own. I'm not discounting that. Just going in circles here. Have to agree to disagree.

We shall see if Iran makes this into something bigger like people expect here or it's just not much of anything. Not gonna argue anymore.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Anyway people bigging this up is just useless. Iran won't go gungho and start siding with US against china. It feels slighted right now but the overall picture won't change and Iran does not want to makes things worse. KSA themselves acknowledge that Iran are neighbours with them forever. And there needs to a way forward for peace. No need to make a mountain out of a molehill tbh
Of course it won't. That's why China has played this beautifully. Iran is now getting more aligned with Russia with almost zero chance to any Western reconciliation (Republicans are coming lol).
And Russia is aligned with China...

So you see why this is a good play. Iran is locked in already to the anti-Western camp. Any minor issues with China will be swiped under the carpet when its primary focus is to be against the West


Here is the trade:
Positive: Make inroads in turning the Arabs against America

Negative: Piss off Iran but Iran will shallow this bitter pill anyway due to having bigger issues against the West than some minor diplomatic issues with China

China took that deal and ran away with it. And its a good deal, taking the Arabs away from America's orbit would be a huge geopolitical win
 

d3dx9

New Member
Registered Member
That's almost 20 years ago. The world was a very different place then. That the most recent mention of that issue was back in 2006 by itself says a lot of things

The same way why with Pelosi's visit the US excuse about "but we did that in the 90s too, why are you so unreasonable now" was laughed out of the door
After further research on the website of the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, I found a statement from 2008. The statement in this document is exactly the same as the most recent one.
I also think there will still be the same statement in some file that I haven't noticed yet.
E44B9D01-6C7B-46FD-9F02-81FC30B112D7.jpeg
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getready

Senior Member
Apologies I dun want to belabour the previous point but in China perspective, the tw hk and Xinjiang issues are purely domestic affairs since they are part of China involves separatism.

The malvinas and three islands is international as they involves different countries claiming. Of course UK, Argentina, UAE and Iran respectively may disagree. But china can spin it that way of not being purely domestic affair imo.

The similar interfering accusation that can be levelled on China would be if someone meddles in the diaoyu Islands dispute with Japan or SCS Island dispute I guess.
 

d3dx9

New Member
Registered Member
That's almost 20 years ago. The world was a very different place then. That the most recent mention of that issue was back in 2006 by itself says a lot of things

The same way why with Pelosi's visit the US excuse about "but we did that in the 90s too, why are you so unreasonable now" was laughed out of the door
The search function on the Foreign Office website is terrible and I don't want to spend any more time on it. Also I think there should be a version later than 2008. Because of the poor search function I couldn't find all the China-Arab States Cooperation Forum announcements. In fact, the announcements of the 2nd and 3rd China-Arab States Cooperation Forum that I found contained statements on the Three Islands issue. I think it should be in the statement that follows. So I think China has not changed its consistent attitude on this issue.

This is my previous reply
F6BE874B-F23C-497B-BE58-31E8DBCE9BC1.jpeg
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
The search function on the Foreign Office website is terrible and I don't want to spend any more time on it. Also I think there should be a version later than 2008. Because of the poor search function I couldn't find all the China-Arab States Cooperation Forum announcements. In fact, the announcements of the 2nd and 3rd China-Arab States Cooperation Forum that I found contained statements on the Three Islands issue. I think it should be in the statement that follows. So I think China has not changed its consistent attitude on this issue.

This is my previous reply
View attachment 103263
Why the strong Iranian response then? Did they think that the 25-year deal would have solved the issue?

In any case 2008 is still an old time ago. If there is any mention of it after >2015 (basically when the world started to change geopolitically) I will agree with you on this matter
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Let's not kid ourselves. China's joint statement with GCC about those 3 islands along with other things is seen in Iran as a huge betrayal. China picked its side here.
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And now you have China's vice premier visiting UAE and Iran over the next few days.
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UAE is a huge important market for China that is participating in CBDC, building infrastructure with Huawei product, using Chinese vaccines, joining Chinese space program amongst other things
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Similarly, Qatar signed the long term LNG deal with China ahead of its deal with Germany.
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Arab countries are also picking China as their partner.

The reality is that since withdraw of US troops from Afghanistan, the region is increasingly looking for someone else to protect them. I don't know if this is necessarily the perfect time for China, since they are dealing with a whole bunch of issues at home. However, they have been forced to take this step because a better one may not come up later.

In the past, Western countries always say that China and Saudi relationship won't reach to a certain point, because China will continue to support Iran. That imo was always nonsense and I will explain further on why China pick sunnis over Iran later. But the reality is now that they have done so and elevated their relationship with Saudis to the highest level, what's preventing them from getting in bed further with the GCC/Arab countries. They've agreed to every major position held by GCC countries and are willing to provide them all the tech and military hardware. What does the West have to offer over this in the long term? They have F-35s? Well, export J-35s will be available in a couple of years. They have burkes, well 052D is now available and it will have hypersonic missiles too. Control of international finance with SWIFT, commodity trading and reserve currency? Well, this is the first step to push the Chinese exchanges to the forefront.

China has a lot of things it needs to do still. I will have to look into Shanghai oil & gas platform to understand how this is setup, but I presume a lot of work to be done here to get all the Arab countries to use it and then to get other Asian countries to trade on this platform. Arab countries will now be paid in Yuan, so they will need places to spend that money and to invest that money. China needs a more robust bond market to invest that money and open up its financial system for foreign investment more. It will need to allow more JV holdings on "strategic" energy sector assets in China. But there is a path here. If China wants Yuan to be bigger and for itself to play a larger role in International financial market, then it needs to improve its tech here and its openness. The importance of the Yuan for oil deal is that it wasn't just limited to oil from Saudis to China. It's encouraging all the largest non Western producers to use Yuan on China's own platform. You think Russians won't have to use this platform eventually? And then, if Australia wants to keep exporting LNG to China, it better use this platform too. Eventually, you get all of ASEAN countries to use it. WTI/Brent are traded a world away. It doesn't make sense for these countries to continue buy oil products from ICE/CME/LME. This is what China wants to build up as alternative. None of this will happen over night. China needs to build these things up.
I am talking to a pretty western oriented Persian (who visits the country back and forth) interestingly, even though he detests his government and does not think or value China positively, he feels indignant about China's recent statement in support of Arab states. He likens the circumstances to Brutus stabbing Caesar at the back.

And predictably, he mentioned the Uyghur issue pretty much believing the nonsense about concentration camps and trampling the rights of Muslims in Xinjiang. But instead of likening it to the NAZI, he uses the Stalin comparison.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
I am talking to a pretty western oriented Persian (who visits the country back and forth) interestingly, even though he detests his government and does not think or value China positively, he feels indignant about China's recent statement in support of Arab states. He likens the circumstances to Brutus stabbing Caesar at the back.

And predictably, he mentioned the Uyghur issue pretty much believing the nonsense about concentration camps and trampling the rights of Muslims in Xinjiang. But instead of likening it to the NAZI, he uses the Stalin comparison.
Iran's leftists are brainwashed by CIA propaganda. That's not to say that their right wingers have helped the situation with their shambolic economic performance

Thats the problem with Iran. You can never trust that if a leftist government comes to power that they won't start messing around.

On one hand the leftists are CIA-brainwashed. On the other hand, the right wingers are idiotic on economics and having a stupid foreign policy (see bombing SA's oil infrastructure and destabilising the region with their proxy groups)
 
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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
That's good take. He understands the core issue here, Iran should up its game on foreign policy
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China-Saudi Arabia relations not security threat against Iran: Expert​

An expert on international relations has said that the strengthening of the relations between China and Saudi Arabia is not a security threat against Iran.
Hassan Beheshtipour said in an exclusive interview with ILNA that the strengthening of the relations between China and Saudi Arabia will promote the regional status of Riyadh.
This relationship is not considered a security threat against Iran because it is mostly in the economic fields, he said, adding that in order not to fall behind in this regional competition with Saudi Arabia, Iran should try to promote its relations with Saudi Arabia and China.
Evaluating the recent joint statement of China and Saudi Arabia that asked Iran not to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries, he answered that this part of the statement is completely against Iran’s interests and Iran should react correctly and clearly to this statement
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Saying china is picking KSA over Iran is rather silly imho. More wishing thinking than anything. China wants to trade with both and not get involved in west Asia security issues. Unless you want China to follow in the footsteps of beloved US of A. That's much is clear so far. KSA is also not forcing china to pick one or the other.
In your eyes this recent action by China is just China doing it's best in taking pragmatic actions that's essentially less deleterious to her economic interests a.k.a win-win cooperation.

The Iranians regardless of ideology don't view this whole situation as a nothing burger. The territories in question evokes strong feelings and passion, no different than how the Chinese feels about it's own territories that are being occupied by the rebels and used as a battering ram by the usual suspects.

It'll be an interesting development how the Iranian-China relations evolve or devolve from here based on this recent development.
 
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