Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

tphuang

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So, they are more focused with BRI projects now into doing mining and metals deals that will help the domestic economy. I tend to think that there may be just fewer road/port projects that will trading with China once you get to a certain point. Maybe more energy grid infrastructure in certain countries?
 

Chevalier

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So, they are more focused with BRI projects now into doing mining and metals deals that will help the domestic economy. I tend to think that there may be just fewer road/port projects that will trading with China once you get to a certain point. Maybe more energy grid infrastructure in certain countries?
Metals and mining for rare earths that could well form the basis for the strategic reserve currency of the BRICS.
 

ZachL111

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Sanctions from Western allies and vassals wont work, and will fail eventually! Hit them with rare earth embago, and string them on a case-by-case basis. Let them sweat!!
I don't understand why we don't start something like the BRI here in the United States. Biden has floated the idea of course,
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, but knowing the US we will find a way to sabotage the project or do conditional attachments like many IMF grants use. We've already seen how the Saudi's and OPEC deny us access to oil, coupled with the fact Biden sold so much oil from our SPR, and now we are grinding to a halt in that regard. Germany, a longtime opponent of Russia, just got passed up in GDP PPP according to the World Bank, by, guess who, Russia. Sanctions and embargoes just screw our country over, especially when we have a country like China that can hit back.
 

Michael90

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they might have to provide some form of security assurance to middle east countries and central asian countries.

I think Pakistan has some form of security assurance from China even if it's not on paper.
Yeah they have to provide some form of security and assurance, we all know that. However the issue is that China since Mao's death has had a totally different policy geopolitically speaking. They have all but stopped any form of overt or covert foreign support to other countries. The country is more focused on business and growth not millitary aventures or supporting friendly governments/countries. I dont see that changing either this decade, and no China will not provide any form of security guarantee to any middle eastern country or any country for that matter(not even Pakistan), hoping for that is just wishful thinking . Lol The only country that has any form of security guarantee with China is brutal world Pariah regime North Korea and that too is a Maoist era legacy which the current CCP leadership unconfortably inherited and couldn't do much about. I doubt if they will even honor it if push ever come to shove, since Pyongyang régime is already almost anti China today as the young Fat Kim has purged and killed off several pro chinese elements in his regime since taking power. Lol

To be honest, Chinese leaders don't even want to challenge the US/West hegemony over the world they would rathef have good ties and continue close economic mutually beneficial relationships with the US, its just that the US got too worried and abit paranoïa about China hence has been taking many radical actions against China , hence forcing the country to take some measures to push back(albeit reluctantly) à little bit against the U.S led West and its allies. China will be happy to just be left on her own and just grow normally and cooperate with the West without US hostility and sanctions, they wouldn't mind the US remaining the world's leader and primacy.
 

tygyg1111

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Yeah they have to provide some form of security and assurance, we all know that. However the issue is that China since Mao's death has had a totally different policy geopolitically speaking. They have all but stopped any form of overt or covert foreign support to other countries. The country is more focused on business and growth not millitary aventures or supporting friendly governments/countries. I dont see that changing either this decade, and no China will not provide any form of security guarantee to any modèle eastern country, hoping for that is just wishful thinking . To be honest, Chinese leaders don't even want to challenge the US/West hegemony over the world they would rathef have good ties and continue close economic mutually beneficial relationships with the US, its just that the US got too worried and abit paranoïa about China hence has been taking many radical actions against China , hence forcing the country to take some measures to push back(albeit reluctantly) à little bit against the U.S led West and its allies. China will be happy to just be left on her own and just grow normally and cooperate with the West without US hostility and sanctions, they wouldn't mind the US remaining the world's leader and primacy.
Problem is the US that can't and won't tolerate an equal or superior China, and China won't tolerate having it's people's interests harmed, so you have a two way lockstep towards conflict, where the US holds the de-escalation lever.
If the US were to drop everything it holds against China (not gonna happen), and resume normal relations again, the world would also slowly return to the way things were, but with China at the apex.
The alternative is China deters the US and dismantles the US alliance system, reaching the same end point as the above.
 

Michael90

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Problem is the US that can't and won't tolerate an equal or superior China, and China won't tolerate having it's people's interests harmed, so you have a two way lockstep towards conflict, where the US holds the de-escalation lever.
If the US were to drop everything it holds against China (not gonna happen), and resume normal relations again, the world would also slowly return to the way things were, but with China at the apex.
The alternative is China deters the US and dismantles the US alliance system, reaching the same end point as the above.
Yeah, but the issue is China doesnt have any wish of doing that. China will(and is) merely be adopting defensive measures to defend herself and her immédiate interests(which SCS , taiwan and technological self suifficiency) , if that is not totally stopped by the US/West then i dont see China taking any offensive measures, just defensive/réactive ones. When there is no Will then there is no way. At présent Chinese leadership has no intention of displacing the US or even challenging US interests to be honest. China will remain mainly focus entirely in her own country's internal interests and at best immediate neighbourhood to some extent.

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To be fair, i dont think its a wrong startegy per se. Its cultural and historical as well, since China proper has never really been a power that sought to be influential, dominant globally and involve in controlling/shaping others countries politics/country per se(even the few times they did so, it was under the influence of being ruled by the Mongols). Unlike the U.S, U.K, France, Russia, or even those like Turkey (Ottomans ) , Iran(Persian empire) who have had such history of conquests and expansions/invasions etc..So it's a situation where i guess old habits and that withdrawn mindset are hard to change. I still think its not a bad thing actually per se. As the country can avoid getting involved in messy internal situations in other countries internal turmoil when things goes south.
 

FairAndUnbiased

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Yeah, but the issue is China doesnt have any wish of doing that. China will(and is) merely be adopting defensive measures to defend herself and her immédiate interests(which SCS , taiwan and technological self suifficiency) , if that is not totally stopped by the US/West then i dont see China taking any offensive measures, just defensive/réactive ones. When there is no Will then there is no way. At présent Chinese leadership has no intention of displacing the US or even challenging US interests to be honest. China will remain mainly focus entirely in her own country's internal interests and at best immediate neighbourhood to some extent.

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To be fair, i dont think its a wrong startegy per se. Its cultural and historical as well, since China proper has never really been a power that sought to be influential, dominant globally and involve in controlling/shaping others countries politics/country per se(even the few times they did so, it was under the influence of being ruled by the Mongols). Unlike the U.S, U.K, France, Russia, or even those like Turkey (Ottomans ) , Iran(Persian empire) who have had such history of conquests and expansions/invasions etc..So it's a situation where i guess old habits and that withdrawn mindset are hard to change. I still think its not a bad thing actually per se. As the country can avoid getting involved in messy internal situations in other countries internal turmoil when things goes south.
in the Han Dynasty, Emperor Wu carried out offensive expeditions into Xiyu and Mobei to end the Xiongnu threat.

in the Tang Dynasty, Emperor Taizong carried out offensive expeditions into Xiyu to end the Turkish threat.

in the Ming Dynasty, Emperor Yongle carried out offensive expeditions into Mongolia to end the Mongol threat.

China is no stranger to going on the offensive to end enemy threats.

Today's situation is also no longer that of imperial era China, but of Warring States era China. Both Qin and Chu were brutal and aggressive conquerors.
 

Biscuits

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Yeah, but the issue is China doesnt have any wish of doing that. China will(and is) merely be adopting defensive measures to defend herself and her immédiate interests(which SCS , taiwan and technological self suifficiency) , if that is not totally stopped by the US/West then i dont see China taking any offensive measures, just defensive/réactive ones. When there is no Will then there is no way. At présent Chinese leadership has no intention of displacing the US or even challenging US interests to be honest. China will remain mainly focus entirely in her own country's internal interests and at best immediate neighbourhood to some extent.

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To be fair, i dont think its a wrong startegy per se. Its cultural and historical as well, since China proper has never really been a power that sought to be influential, dominant globally and involve in controlling/shaping others countries politics/country per se(even the few times they did so, it was under the influence of being ruled by the Mongols). Unlike the U.S, U.K, France, Russia, or even those like Turkey (Ottomans ) , Iran(Persian empire) who have had such history of conquests and expansions/invasions etc..So it's a situation where i guess old habits and that withdrawn mindset are hard to change. I still think its not a bad thing actually per se. As the country can avoid getting involved in messy internal situations in other countries internal turmoil when things goes south.
The historical part is not really true though. There's a reason China is even larger than the whole EU. They did a lot of empire building. It's just that the tech didn't exist for global empire building during the pre 1700s era.

Wherever Imperial China could reach, they did try to control, if it was possible. Granted, China today isn't an empire anymore, and they might break with old traditions because of ideology changing the culture.

I would say primarily modern China is focused on itself, because for continent sized countries/entities, improving internal circulation provides the best growth. Because of government accountability, public benefitting growth is the main agenda.

But China also does economic and covert interference to manipulate the global situation into a favorable direction. However, they would avoid going to proxy war themselves, preferring so far to use Russia or other regional actors. Not being in war does make it easier to keep the economy in high quality growth.
 

taxiya

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Yeah, but the issue is China doesnt have any wish of doing that. China will(and is) merely be adopting defensive measures to defend herself and her immédiate interests(which SCS , taiwan and technological self suifficiency) , if that is not totally stopped by the US/West then i dont see China taking any offensive measures, just defensive/réactive ones. When there is no Will then there is no way. At présent Chinese leadership has no intention of displacing the US or even challenging US interests to be honest. China will remain mainly focus entirely in her own country's internal interests and at best immediate neighbourhood to some extent.
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You should know that grown-ups don't always say what they think and going to do next. Both Han and Tang dynasties bribed Xiongnu and Tujue for decades before eliminating both. Why do you think PRC isn't going to do the same? Is Chinese suddenly brainwashed by aliens?

If BRI, BRICS, SCO, keeping US hands off NK, Iran, Pakistan, keeping Russia afloat in fighting Ukraine and squesing dollar's share in trade aren't challenging US interests, what is then?

To be fair, i dont think its a wrong startegy per se. Its cultural and historical as well, since China proper has never really been a power that sought to be influential, dominant globally and involve in controlling/shaping others countries politics/country per se(even the few times they did so, it was under the influence of being ruled by the Mongols). Unlike the U.S, U.K, France, Russia, or even those like Turkey (Ottomans ) , Iran(Persian empire) who have had such history of conquests and expansions/invasions etc..So it's a situation where i guess old habits and that withdrawn mindset are hard to change. I still think its not a bad thing actually per se. As the country can avoid getting involved in messy internal situations in other countries internal turmoil when things goes south.
Han and Tang dynasties reached all the way to morden day Kazakhstan. However, Yuan dynasty (Kublai's realm) did not control morden day Xinjiang.

Roman empire isn't global either, but one can't say it is any less than US, on the contrary US percieves itself as the morden Roman empire.

You should really study China's pre 1800s history. All your knowledge of China is post 1800.
 
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