Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) and Global South strategic cooperation

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Iran importance to china is like north Korea importance to china. Having conservative there is a must.

Turkey on the other hands is not that much important (Greece is far more important). It's not that bad if Erdogan loose but rather have Erdogan win is better for china as turkey is more isolated from both side.

China should make turkey weak weather Erdogan win or not. Erdogan winning will make it easier for china.
Iran is not close to NK's importance to China. You might want to read up on how long it even took Iran to come around to China. If JCPOA didn't get terminated by Trump, the Iranians would still be waiting on the Europeans right now.

Keep in mind that Turkish importance comes from being a country that you can move over the your column from NATO. Greece will never willingly leave NATO. Turkish GDP is 4x that of Greece, more than 2x that of iran and about same as Saudi Arabia. It has a huge army. It's a power in its own right.

How many potential Chinese allies do you think have Turkey's economy size? Let's see: Russia, Brazil, Indonesia & Saudi Arabia. That's it.
 

resistance

Junior Member
Registered Member
Iran is not close to NK's importance to China. You might want to read up on how long it even took Iran to come around to China. If JCPOA didn't get terminated by Trump, the Iranians would still be waiting on the Europeans right now.

Keep in mind that Turkish importance comes from being a country that you can move over the your column from NATO. Greece will never willingly leave NATO. Turkish GDP is 4x that of Greece, more than 2x that of iran and about same as Saudi Arabia. It has a huge army. It's a power in its own right.

How many potential Chinese allies do you think have Turkey's economy size? Let's see: Russia, Brazil, Indonesia & Saudi Arabia. That's it.
If you really know. At the time when jcpoa was signed, china also join sanction north Korea. So that's not the case at all. Iran location is so important that it will block US from attacking central Asia and western region of china. The same way as north Korea.

Move column from NATO, hell no. Turkey just allowed Finland in. No way turkey will leave NATO. Japan GDP is 5 times of turkey, should we make Japan join too?

Making allies is not about GDP. We make allies from security interested. The whole world isn't just about US and china.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Great news, Saudis and Syrians have resumed relationship
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
I think I read Egypt & Iran also on their way to do so. The middle east is blossoming with peace.

Looks like Turkey is ready to withdraw troops from Syria. If that happens, American forces will be alone in Syria with no support. I'm not sure how long that can possibly last.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
on look at this, China signing mous and enhance cooperation in nuclear energy with Saudi Arabia and UAE on the same day. I wonder if something big is coming. They are certainly willing to provide technology and expertise in areas that America cannot.

Partly why you engage with the Arab countries. They really have a lot of money that need to be parked somewhere
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
china's local govt are seeking them out. Good on them. Arab investments shouldn't only be going to Western financial institutions
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
If you really know. At the time when jcpoa was signed, china also join sanction north Korea. So that's not the case at all. Iran location is so important that it will block US from attacking central Asia and western region of china. The same way as north Korea.

Move column from NATO, hell no. Turkey just allowed Finland in. No way turkey will leave NATO. Japan GDP is 5 times of turkey, should we make Japan join too?

Making allies is not about GDP. We make allies from security interested. The whole world isn't just about US and china.
What the heck are you talking about? What does NK have anything to do with Iran & JCPOA? The point is Iran only turned to China because JCPOA failed. That's the kind of loyal partner you are getting with Iran. They are not comparable to China's relationship with NK or Pakistan at all.

Your other point doesn't make sense at all. China already has an ally in Pakistan that does exactly the same thing. If you don't know anything about military, maybe you shouldn't pretend that you are qualified to talk about it.

The whole world right now is about US maintaining unipolar and China pushing for multi-polar. So right, if Turkey continues down this path of telling America that everyone hates them and spending time at SCO, it will become more and more a neutral player
 

resistance

Junior Member
Registered Member
What the heck are you talking about? What does NK have anything to do with Iran & JCPOA? The point is Iran only turned to China because JCPOA failed. That's the kind of loyal partner you are getting with Iran. They are not comparable to China's relationship with NK or Pakistan at all.

Your other point doesn't make sense at all. China already has an ally in Pakistan that does exactly the same thing. If you don't know anything about military, maybe you shouldn't pretend that you are qualified to talk about it.

The whole world right now is about US maintaining unipolar and China pushing for multi-polar. So right, if Turkey continues down this path of telling America that everyone hates them and spending time at SCO, it will become more and more a neutral player
What I mean is the importance of Iran to china right now that china can't afford to let conservative in iran lose. China must do anything to keep Iran strong enough.

Why the heck do you compare Pakistan to turkey? Pakistan doesn't support separtism in xinjiang unlike turkey. Why do you think you are qualified to talk about military than me?

Don't be so naive. Turkey oppose US because US always dictate them, but turkey is also support US antagonizing china in xinjiang. This is enough for such unhealthy relationship with turkey. Better antagonizing turkey to divide EU.
 

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
The point is Iran only turned to China because JCPOA failed. That's the kind of loyal partner you are getting with Iran. They are not comparable to China's relationship with NK or Pakistan at all.
China imposed UN sanctions on both North Korea and Iran. How can you expect "loyalty"? Iran, North Korea, Syria and Russia have all turned to China and each other because of western sanctions/bombs. They are also "loyal" to each other. Russia and Iran rescued Syria. North Korea and Iran have long cooperated on missile technology and maybe nuclear technology. Iran and North Korea are the only countries that have provided substantial lethal aid to Russia in its war in Ukraine.

China is slowly being pushed towards other sanctioned countries. You might regret it, but decoupling is coming and the number of sanctions on China are increasing every day. Other countries that are under similar or worse trade restrictions with the west are natural allies. The stronger and more stable they are, the better.

A multipolar world may exist in the future, but today we are clearly seeing the re-emergence of bipolarity. None of the other potential poles, like India, Brazil, Indonesia or Russia, are even close to strong enough to be an independent pole. Europe and maybe Japan might have the strength to be a pole but lack the will.

We may talk about multipolarity, but it's just a word that hides the real agenda: expanding and strengthening the pro Chinese pole while weakening western aligned countries. India and some African and south east Asian countries will take their traditional non aligned roles. 30 years from now, there might be a tripolar world with India or Indonesia joining China and the US. But the time for true multipolarity is not here yet
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
What I mean is the importance of Iran to china right now that china can't afford to let conservative in iran lose. China must do anything to keep Iran strong enough.
Why? A liberal will still get sanctioned. At this point, eu is incapable of having independent foreign policy.
Why the heck do you compare Pakistan to turkey?
I have not compared the two. I compared Pakistan to Iran. Pakistan is geographically located to do the same as what you want Iran to do.
Pakistan doesn't support separtism in xinjiang unlike turkey. Why do you think you are qualified to talk about military than me?
Your military knowledge is quite limited.
Don't be so naive. Turkey oppose US because US always dictate them, but turkey is also support US antagonizing china in xinjiang. This is enough for such unhealthy relationship with turkey. Better antagonizing turkey to divide EU.
Turkey antagonize china on Xinjiang because it thinks it has cultural links there. I have no issue with that. Great power competition is about getting as many countries on your side as possible to weaken other side. China has been picking up friends along the way. No reason turkey can't be the next one.
China imposed UN sanctions on both North Korea and Iran. How can you expect "loyalty"? Iran, North Korea, Syria and Russia have all turned to China and each other because of western sanctions/bombs. They are also "loyal" to each other. Russia and Iran rescued Syria. North Korea and Iran have long cooperated on missile technology and maybe nuclear technology. Iran and North Korea are the only countries that have provided substantial lethal aid to Russia in its war in Ukraine.

China is slowly being pushed towards other sanctioned countries. You might regret it, but decoupling is coming and the number of sanctions on China are increasing every day. Other countries that are under similar or worse trade restrictions with the west are natural allies. The stronger and more stable they are, the better.
Sure, so you should work with countries that have issues with the collective west, like turkey.
A multipolar world may exist in the future, but today we are clearly seeing the re-emergence of bipolarity. None of the other potential poles, like India, Brazil, Indonesia or Russia, are even close to strong enough to be an independent pole. Europe and maybe Japan might have the strength to be a pole but lack the will.

We may talk about multipolarity, but it's just a word that hides the real agenda: expanding and strengthening the pro Chinese pole while weakening western aligned countries. India and some African and south east Asian countries will take their traditional non aligned roles. 30 years from now, there might be a tripolar world with India or Indonesia joining China and the US. But the time for true multipolarity is not here yet
You call it multipolar because this boosts the other nations that don't want to be part of a unipolar world. But realistically, we only have 2 poles. Having a non committal India is better than having a overtly pro America India. Having a turkey that is neutral to slightly pro china is better than one that is pro America.
 

resistance

Junior Member
Registered Member
Why? A liberal will still get sanctioned. At this point, eu is incapable of having independent foreign policy.

I have not compared the two. I compared Pakistan to Iran. Pakistan is geographically located to do the same as what you want Iran to do.

Your military knowledge is quite limited.

Turkey antagonize china on Xinjiang because it thinks it has cultural links there. I have no issue with that. Great power competition is about getting as many countries on your side as possible to weaken other side. China has been picking up friends along the way. No reason turkey can't be the next one.

Sure, so you should work with countries that have issues with the collective west, like turkey.

You call it multipolar because this boosts the other nations that don't want to be part of a unipolar world. But realistically, we only have 2 poles. Having a non committal India is better than having a overtly pro America India. Having a turkey that is neutral to slightly pro china is better than one that is pro America.
Pakistan and Iran are parts of Chinese barrier to fend the west because both are friendly to china.

You have no idea about military tech relation to terrorism.

Oh, so you shouldn't have "issues" with Japan and Korea since they antagonizing china in the same way.

You choose consider to work with countries that have no "issue" with you first not anybody that have issue with both of you and enemies.

You can create multipolar world without making potential enemies get stronger. There are some more countries than turkey like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, greece etc. Why should I sacrifice those three countries just for getting turkey.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Pakistan and Iran are parts of Chinese barrier to fend the west because both are friendly to china.

You have no idea about military tech relation to terrorism.

Oh, so you shouldn't have "issues" with Japan and Korea since they antagonizing china in the same way.

You choose consider to work with countries that have no "issue" with you first not anybody that have issue with both of you and enemies.

You can create multipolar world without making potential enemies get stronger. There are some more countries than turkey like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, greece etc. Why should I sacrifice those three countries just for getting turkey.
Actually, I would totally work with Japan and Korea if they are open to it, but there are real hatred in those countries for china defeating all of their national champions and deindustrializing them. Even still, china should still have manageable relationship with these two countries while trying to weaken them at the same time.

Why would you need to sacrifice relationship with Saudi and Egypt to have better relationship with turkey? That's nonsense. You might want to take a look at recent survey from arab countries about their view toward various powers. Guess what, china and turkey ranked the best on that list. So unless you can show evidence that arab countries hate turkey, them your argument doesn't work.
 
Top