possible confrontation scenario with the US

Actually I can say that the Russian influence on the 093 is practically none at alll, just like they're not there for the Han, Xia and Song class. The Russians are interested to sell their subs to the Chinese, not teach the Chinese to build subs so they won't buy Russian subs later.

the 93 probably bewnifited from russian design, such as steel welding and construction, but not too much more. think of it like this: the gas cooled engine on the 93 is superior in speed ans quietness to any russia sub, since no russian sub has the technology. that means the 93 is quieter thna the aluka II. if the aluka II is quieter than the l.a at low speeds, the 93 must be quieter than the l.a at medium speeds.

Sea Dog said:

Well, both you and Migleader are correct about this. I'm not disputing that China can build some neat stuff on their own. J-10, JH-7, C-802, YJ-62, WZ-10, and Yuan SSK prove this point. I'm not disputing that. But some of these designs have significant Russian influence. And that's all I'm saying. In this regard, I'm assuming 093 is going to be a very capable submarine, but I just find it difficult to believe that they will surpass Russia's design specifications with their reliance on Russians. You do know that Russia has input into the 093..don't you?. And I do have to disagree with Migleader on this point only. That economics precluded Russians from fielding western equivalent capabilities. Look how much they sunk into the Typhoon, Sierra, Alfa, and Akula(Bars). The record here speaks for itself.

Click to expand...

Actually, the only support from the russians for the J-10 project was only the AL-31FN engines. The WuZhuang 10 does not have enough info to support who was involved so dont just asume

renmin said:

Actually, the only support from the russians for the J-10 project was only the AL-31FN engines. The WuZhuang 10 does not have enough info to support who was involved so dont just asume

Click to expand...

J-10 got support from the Israelis too. There is no question about that. As for WZ-10, you can pretty much guess who is involved just by the partners that are involved with the CMH project (basically Eurocopter, Agusta and Pratt & Whitney)

renmin said:

Actually, the only support from the russians for the J-10 project was only the AL-31FN engines. The WuZhuang 10 does not have enough info to support who was involved so dont just asume

Click to expand...

dont forget the arsenal hms, and some of the weapons such as r-77. but its far from a foreign design.

the wz-10 undoubtedly recieved european assistance, although it would foolish to start assuming on what scale that assistance was.

It would be near impossible for China to reach the level of todays improved LA. Every credible source thus far has put the noise level to that of the Victor III. Its not rediculous to think that china cant better a 30 year old design because China has only a first gernation SSN being the Han class which is among the most noisest submarines ever built.

the gas cooled engine on the 93 is superior in speed ans quietness to any russia sub, since no russian sub has the technology. that means the 93 is quieter thna the aluka II. if the aluka II is quieter than the l.a at low speeds, the 93 must be quieter than the l.a at medium speeds.

Click to expand...

This is if the article is accurate and somehow some1 managed to leak out top secret technologies on a submarine that officially is not recognized. As for gas cooled egine, there is a lot more to noise level than the engine. I would like to know how a gas cooled engine reduces noise levels. For China to jump from a first generation sub to sub thats more advanced than the Akula II is not feasable.

slackpiv

the victory is noisy beacause of its primitive propeller china has already sloved that problem

Isuggest you look more into gas cooled reactor provide evidance they are not possible

the han was designed in the early 60s with no throught toward noise reduction what so ever

also the most noisey submarine is the russian november class

its silly to compare the 091 to the 093

all the lession learned form built the song and yuan can be applyed to the 093

slackpiv

maybe you would like to learn chinese first before saying there are no info on the 093

info would be mostly speculation as no country, especially China, would release information on their SSNs. I would like to see a credible source compare the 093 to an akula II or the improved LA class. A next gen SSN always reflects the sub class before it. btw the Russians fixed the prob problem with the improved Victor III.

info would be mostly speculation as no country, especially China, would release information on their SSNs. I would like to see a credible source compare the 093 to an akula II or the improved LA class. A next gen SSN always reflects the sub class before it. I never said Gas cooled reactors are not possible. I'd like to know how they reduce sub noise.

my view is that it was originally developed to match Victor III in performance, but it will be more powerful than Victor III now (possibly matching Early Akulas) due to the modern weapons in the Chinese arsenal + the latest Russian control systems + electronics and such. This is stated in the latest Kanwa article. Add on top of that, you can add asymmetrical seven-blade skewed propeller and anechoic tiles to 093. These are the reasons why it would be better than Victor III.

"Russia is also helping develop a new generation of Chinese SSN's
and SSBN's, the new 093 and 094 attack and missile submarines. Russia is
helping China cover the hulls of these submarines with a layer of anechoic
tiles to improve their quieting capabilities and help them elude detection,
i.e. U.S. and Japanese detection. These submarines will conduct missions
related to daily activities of U.S. and Japanese warships, compare
favorably with Victor III class SSN's, and should become operational in
2007."

It was also mentionned in the latest Richard Fisher article that China is probably get some technological assistance from the revived SEVERDOVINSK project.