possible confrontation scenario with the US

even if the crew of the Seawolf did manage to scuttle the sub, with the closest friendly forces over 2 or 3 days away they will suffer from dehydration and lack of food. thats assuming that the chinese didn't pick them up and imprisoned them already

Well I should certainly hope the Chinese ship would pick them up!

Why exactly would they imprison them?

These are international waters remember. If the Chinese tried to (illegaly) tow the American submarine to Chinese waters, and the Americans scuttled it, the Chinese would be in no position to hold the American submariners as prisoners.

well it was technically in international waters but the seawolf was spotted around 3 times by chinese surface vessels, and the 167 was deployed in the area where the chinese command think the seawolf would be in so i think you could arrest the crew and confiscate the ship because it tresspassed into chinese territorial waters

and if they scuttled the seawolf, how do you think the 167 would be able to pick them up? theres over 100 crews and officers aboard the seawolf and the 167 can only carry ~250 personell, assuming it was not already at that capacity when the seawolf is scuttled

MIGleader said:

if the two ships are entangled, then attempting to scuttle one ship puts the other ship in dager of sinking with it. do you think the chinese will let america scuttle the seawolf and take 167 and her crew with it? the crew of 167 have the right to protect their ship from sinking.

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No... because the 167 can just sever the cable. It is a process that takes about 5 seconds to accomplish. I personally think that it would be a better solution than gunning down the American crew.

sever the cable? why waste a perfectly good towed sonar? beijing would then probably accuse amnerica of purposely staging the collision to damage the sonar, with the excuse that the seawolf was entangled.

but lets not go there. the sub woud most likely be an LA class, ans china sdoenst have much to gain from the la class, seeing how the 93 is already at that level. china should simply embarass america on the international stage, and make some monay by making the u.s navy pay for the damage to 167 and its sonar.

Migleader, the Americans are not the only party who would be embarassed, it take two ships to collide.


"beijing would then probably accuse amnerica of purposely staging the collision to damage the sonar"

I wasn't aware Beijing was populated by complete idiots. Such an accusation would gain nothing but laughter. Why on Earth would America want to damage a Chinese sonar (that is not onlt likely fairly obsolete to America, but could be replaced with ease).

"and make some monay by making the u.s navy pay for the damage to 167 and its sonar."

Why would America be paying for the damage?
You seem convinced that America is the party in the wrong. Don't forget that the instance is two vessels becoming entangled, in international waters. It is the Chinese vessel in the wrong, if they try to tow the American boat to Chinese soverign waters, and especially if they fired upon the American crew.

"international" waters. it may be so legally, but no so in many peoples eyes. how would many americans feel if the russians and chinese started sailing nuclear armed submarines 16 km from the coast of the u.s? they would demand the sub be towed away.

the sub should not be there in the first place, so a collsion is the u.s's fault. 167 was only doing a routine coastline patrol. china would be perfectly justified in towing the sub and removing any sensitive information it had obtained about during its spying mission.

if u think sending a nuclear sub within 10 mi of someones shoreline is legal, perhaps china should deloy the plan for exercises of the coast of guam, or california.

MIGleader said:

"international" waters. it may be so legally, but no so in many peoples eyes.

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Thankfully, international law is what is important here, not what certain people see.

the sub should not be there in the first place, so a collsion is the u.s's fault. 167 was only doing a routine coastline patrol.

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It is international waters. The AMerican boat has as much right to patrol the area as the Chinese ship does.

if u think sending a nuclear sub within 10 mi of someones shoreline is legal, perhaps china should deloy the plan for exercises of the coast of guam, or california.

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If China saw herself as the next USSR, and had the capabilities to do so, I am sure that is exactly what she would try to do. Fortunately, she is neither.

sending military vessels close other countries is not legal, or accepted. the seawolf is armed, and terefore posess a threat to chiense cities. an un security council would review the case, and america would be guilty. even if america is allowed to send a sub into "international" waters, why would it? spying is the reason. and that is not legal.

MIGleader said:

sever the cable? why waste a perfectly good towed sonar? beijing would then probably accuse amnerica of purposely staging the collision to damage the sonar, with the excuse that the seawolf was entangled.

but lets not go there. the sub woud most likely be an LA class, ans china sdoenst have much to gain from the la class, seeing how the 93 is already at that level. china should simply embarass america on the international stage, and make some monay by making the u.s navy pay for the damage to 167 and its sonar.

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The 093 is not at an LA 688 level. I have only seen speculation that it might approach the noise level of Victor III with equivalent sensors. I admit, that's a credible and very capable submarine. It may reach the level of technology fused into Flight I LA class of 1980's, but it is no Flight I with current specification upgrades. And that's from every source you can name, including Sinodefence.

On the topic at hand, if this is in international waters, I doubt China would provoke hostilities of this kind. I actually agree with whoever said they would sever tha cable. The cost of a towed array cable is negligible when compared to starting hostilities with the USA, which would prove very costly to China in then long run...and dangerous.