PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[FugitiveVisions]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

09-Ⅱ二代
韩铎，男，汉族，中国核工业总公司核电局高级工程师，河南省人，1929年1月出生，1958年毕业于莫斯科动力学院，现从事核反应堆工程专业。三十多年一直从事09—1，49—3，196，101堆的研究设计改造、检修、参加了09-Ⅱ二代，09-Ⅳ弱源启动方案等工作。在潜艇核动力堆物理、热工水力、屏蔽计算等研究方面贡献卓著，是主要组织者和参加者。09工程获国家科技进步特等奖，被授予荣誉证书。并获得《国家重要领域技术政策研究》表彰证书。

This is kind of interesting, it says that China has a 092 second gen project and the 094 project. I think that means there was a second, improved 092 or that the 094 that we are seeing is actually Improved 092.

There's also the possibility that second generation refers to the extensive upgrade program that 092 recently went through, just like how Luda's are given different designations even though it's still the same hull.

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

There's also the possibility that second generation refers to the extensive upgrade program that 092 recently went through, just like how Luda's are given different designations even though it's still the same hull.

i guess that's a possibility, but that is very unlikely just looking at the way they described it.

 

[adeptitus]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Why China is not building any more 093? Are they waiting for the 095?
When would they feature the long range land attack cruise missile on the sub?

I think cost is a major concern for big ticket items like the SSN. Modern SSN's are very expensive at >$2 billion USD in the west. India opted to lease 2 Akula's, and Russia charged them $2 billion.

For the price of 1 x 093 SSN you can probably buy 8 x 054A Frigates, or 50 x J-10 fighters. Plus the 094 is even more expensive than the 093, and the carrier project even more expensive than that. The PLA has limited procurement budget and have to make some hard decisions.

 

[jackbh]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I keep reading in Chinese articles that the 094 has 16 missile launchers, but the pictures we've seen the 094 has only 12. So there is the possibility that we haven't really seen any real pictures of the actual 094.

 

[szbd]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I think cost is a major concern for big ticket items like the SSN. Modern SSN's are very expensive at >$2 billion USD in the west. India opted to lease 2 Akula's, and Russia charged them $2 billion.

For the price of 1 x 093 SSN you can probably buy 8 x 054A Frigates, or 50 x J-10 fighters. Plus the 094 is even more expensive than the 093, and the carrier project even more expensive than that. The PLA has limited procurement budget and have to make some hard decisions.

You don't need to worry about the budget when PLA has the exact model they want. The problem has always been, there's no such model.

 

[kroko]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I think cost is a major concern for big ticket items like the SSN. Modern SSN's are very expensive at >$2 billion USD in the west. India opted to lease 2 Akula's, and Russia charged them $2 billion.

For the price of 1 x 093 SSN you can probably buy 8 x 054A Frigates, or 50 x J-10 fighters. Plus the 094 is even more expensive than the 093, and the carrier project even more expensive than that. The PLA has limited procurement budget and have to make some hard decisions.

Get rid of 094. They are not that effective (chinese submarines are still too noisy i think), and represent too much eggs in one basket. how many mobile DF31a can you build with the cost of one 094??

 

[Roger604]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

i guess that's a possibility, but that is very unlikely just looking at the way they described it.

That means both the new SSN and SSBN revealed in 2007 / 2008 were actually Type 091G and Type 092G.

This explains why we saw at least two distinct SSN's in 2007 / 2008 -- remember the mysterious thinner, longer SSN?

If the Type 091G and Type 092G were both officially unveiled in 2007 / 2008, this suggests that the real Type 093 and Type 094 were already in sea trials at that time.

This also suggests to me that although the Type 091G and Type 092G may only be as advanced as the early LA-class / Thresher, the real Type 093 and 094 should be much bigger and be at least as quiet as the later LA-class. Maybe it even has natural circulation like the Ohio or a pumpjet like Seawolf.

If the real Type 093 was in sea trials during 2007, it could be ready to enter service right around now.

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

That means both the new SSN and SSBN revealed in 2007 / 2008 were actually Type 091G and Type 092G.

This explains why we saw at least two distinct SSN's in 2007 / 2008 -- remember the mysterious thinner, longer SSN?

If the Type 091G and Type 092G were both officially unveiled in 2007 / 2008, this suggests that the real Type 093 and Type 094 were already in sea trials at that time.

This also suggests to me that although the Type 091G and Type 092G may only be as advanced as the early LA-class / Thresher, the real Type 093 and 094 should be much bigger and be at least as quiet as the later LA-class. Maybe it even has natural circulation like the Ohio or a pumpjet like Seawolf.

If the real Type 093 was in sea trials during 2007, it could be ready to enter service right around now.

no, the pictures we've seen are definitely 093. 093's production has already finished, 095 has just started. I know, it was pretty fast. They basically fast tracked when it came to 095.

 

[pla101prc]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

no, the pictures we've seen are definitely 093. 093's production has already finished, 095 has just started. I know, it was pretty fast. They basically fast tracked when it came to 095.

i have no doubt that China is designing new generations SSBN's but do you have proof that 095 project has actually started?

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

i have no doubt that China is designing new generations SSBN's but do you have proof that 095 project has actually started?

I don't know what kind of proof you need. I have a link in this thread that states the project for the reactor of 095 needs to be finished in this 5 year plan (2006-2010). There are definitely a lot of noise from posters (some fairly credible) that 095 project has started and the first will be launched this decade. 093 production run has already reached 6 units.