PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[crobato]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Yes this one.

I'm not sure if this picture is actually related to the first two at all, due to the differences of grain in the pictures, or for that matter if the first two is related.

On another note, I just had a thought that the Yuans we have been seeing stop by at the ESF headquarters located near the mouth of the Huangpu river. Many of the photos of the new Yuans show the sub rested next to the HQ. I believe this marks the transfer of the sub from the shipyard to the navy, and from then on the sub gets its operational crew.

The thing I seem to notice that not all subs or ships would be going to this route. If a sub or ship is destined to the North or South Seas Fleets, they won't stop by the ESF HQ and would go directly to their destination which is going to be either the HQ for the North or South Seas Fleet depending on their assignment. A case in point would be the Hudong built 054A pennant 568.

That means we're not going to account for subs headed to the NSF and SSF subs this way. What we have seen so far are the new Yuans going to the ESF. In order to make a full first operational flotilla, you would need about four of them, or three if the original Yuan is transferred back to the ESF.

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Yes this one.

I'm not sure if this picture is actually related to the first two at all, due to the differences of grain in the pictures, or for that matter if the first two is related.

On another note, I just had a thought that the Yuans we have been seeing stop by at the ESF headquarters located near the mouth of the Huangpu river. Many of the photos of the new Yuans show the sub rested next to the HQ. I believe this marks the transfer of the sub from the shipyard to the navy, and from then on the sub gets its operational crew.

The thing I seem to notice that not all subs or ships would be going to this route. If a sub or ship is destined to the North or South Seas Fleets, they won't stop by the ESF HQ and would go directly to their destination which is going to be either the HQ for the North or South Seas Fleet depending on their assignment. A case in point would be the Hudong built 054A pennant 568.

That means we're not going to account for subs headed to the NSF and SSF subs this way. What we have seen so far are the new Yuans going to the ESF. In order to make a full first operational flotilla, you would need about four of them, or three if the original Yuan is transferred back to the ESF.

I always thought there are more Yuans out there than just the 3 we saw + the additional one in Wuhan. I don't think it's possible to know unless we start seeing numbers. Like for Song, we still don't know the exact number.

 

[crobato]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I based my estimates on how you would plan an ORBAT. I do this with my J-10, JH-7A, and J-11 estimations. Give me a location with a sighting, and expect to have a full operational unit there.

The diesel subs and FACs tend to operate in groups of four, which makes up a flotilla. Larger ships and subs tend to be in pairs with the notable exceptions of ships and subs that are only for experimental reasons, made in ones (167 Shenzhen, Xia, original Yuan). However, for the Xia it can be counted as a pair to match the Hans being an odd number.

My initial estimate for the new Yuans is either four subs to a flotilla for the ESF, or three subs + first Yuan for the flotilla.

My current estimate for the Songs is 12 039G1, in three flotillas plus 3 039G. and 1 039 that makes up a test flotilla for the ESF. The 12 039G1 (improved G, starting from pennant 324) is divided in to three flotillas of four subs each in the ESF, SSF and NSF. However, I'm not sure if the SSF flotilla is currently 3 Songs + 1 original Yuan, and it may be four Songs with the Yuan being a test sub. If that is the latter case, then I can expect three new Yuans + original Yuan to make up a flotilla. If that is the former case, then the initial contract for 039B would be four Yuan 039B for one flotilla and the original Yuan won't be joining them.

Likewise, the 091Gs and 093s may be set in pairs. Two 091G in the SSF, two in the NSF. Same goes for the 093 but i suspect there might be four in the NSF.

 

[crobato]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Here is a thought challenge. What sub is this? Yes, its a Lada and it looks very much like a Yuan.

But people tend to miss the one very important part. In fact, if a Lada and a Yuan are sailing together, you can use this to recognize one from the other from an airborne or satellite view.

Chinese subs tend to be constructed in a way that their sail is much close to the forward bow. This has been true with all indigenously designed subs from the 094 to the Yuan.

The Russian subs however---both conventional and nuclear---tend to be constructed in a way that their sail is close or near dead center of the hull. The way the sail is located can lead to some strategic design decision s of placements in various things in the inner hull. If you're on top, you can see both forward and rear of the sub equally.

 

[crobato]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

So big byte (too big to be posted in the SDF) pictures of a new Yuan posted by Xinhui in the CDF in the bottom of this thread.

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The sub is in a different location from the previous Yuans would get their crew, which in the last three to four occasions have been the ESF naval base at the mouth of the Huangpu river. There are minor differences in this sub from the previous ones, such as in the number of rear limber holes (4 vs. 6 in the last new ones).

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I think this one is actually the original Yuan. At least the window on the sail and some of the other minor changes from Yuan 01 to 02 can be seen on this picture. Also, I think the limber hole pattern matches 01 better.

 

[crobato]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

The fourth set of limber holes on this sub starts with a pattern like this.

IIIIIIII IIII IIII IIII

The original Yuan has the fourth set of limber holes in a pattern like this.

IIII IIII IIII IIII IIII

All you need to do is check the pictures. Its either a second 039A, a sub between the first and the third (first 039B), or the first 039A strangely enough, has different patterns of holes on each side.

I'm not sure where the location of this base is at, I suspect its the ESF. Either way, this is a Yuan that used to be in the SSF and has now gone back to the ESF, probably, in my opinion, to meet the other Yuans there to form an all Yuan flotilla.

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

pictures of the modified 091, doesn't show much more than usual. I guess it's on a routine exercise.

 

[crobato]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

The second picture looks like it has a helicopter hovering above it but the helo is not included with the shot.

 

[crobato]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

094 artwork and models.