PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

tphuang

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Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

One of the Yuans, it's really hard to tell which one it is just by looking at this front view. I think the size of the window seems to be closer to Yuan 02's window, but it's hard to say without a side view.
 

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crobato

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Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

That picture was taken earlier this year and it appears to be the new Yuan subtype. Interesting enough the background seems to indicate the north, or with the NSF. At that time, the NSF appears to be having ASW exercises so I was thinking that the Yuan as part of its trials, may be playing as an adversary.
 

crobato

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Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Japan concerned over Chinese submarines near maritime borders
12:12 | 17/ 10/ 2008



TOKYO, October 17 (RIA Novosti) - Chinese submarines have recently increased their activity near Japan's maritime borders in the East China Sea, a Japanese military source said on Friday.

According to the source, the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force detected the presence of a Chinese Han-class nuclear-powered submarine and a Song-class diesel attack submarine in the region as the U.S. George Washington nuclear aircraft carrier was heading to the South Korean port of Pusan on a friendly visit.

The USS George Washington is stationed at a U.S. naval base in Yokosuka, Japan.

The source said the Chinese submarines did not violate Japanese territorial waters, but described their activities as attempts "to gather data on noise signatures emitted by all automated systems of the U.S. aircraft carrier" and "some sort of intimidation."

In response to the Chinese moves, Tokyo and Washington increased the number of patrol flights by Japan's P-3C Orion ASW aircraft and deployed additional U.S. reconnaissance satellite assets to monitor the area.

The Chinese Navy's submarine fleet includes at least two nuclear-powered attack submarines, and its 13 Song-class submarines are extremely quiet and difficult to detect when running on electric motors.

In October 2006, an undetected Chinese Song-class submarine popped up in the middle of a U.S. task force during an exercise in the Pacific at the distance of only 5 miles from the USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier.

The Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile aircraft or submarines.
 

montyp165

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Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

As long as the PLAN submarine force gains more practice and experience, things will pay off in the long term...
 

crobato

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Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

This is to address the SublevelIQs at Strategypage.com


Chinese Boats Stalk George Washington
October 21, 2008: Japan has increased anti-submarine patrols in international waters, just outside Japanese territorial waters. Chinese submarines are apparently exercising there more frequently, looking for Japanese, South Korean and American warships to play tag with. The U.S. has also redirected more of its space based naval search capabilities to assist the Japanese.

Chinese Song class diesel electric and Han class nuclear powered boats were detected and tracked recently. One of each of these was spotted stalking the American carrier USS George Washington, as it headed to South Korea for a visit.

China is rapidly acquiring advanced submarine building capabilities, and providing money (for fuel and spare parts) to send its subs to sea more often. Moreover, new classes of boats are constantly appearing. The new Type 39A, or Yuan class, looks just like the Russian Kilo class. In the late 1990s, the Chinese began ordering Russian Kilo class subs, then one of the latest diesel-electric design available. Russia was selling new Kilos for about $200 million each, which is about half the price other Western nations sell similar boats for. The Kilos weigh 2,300 tons (surface displacement), have six torpedo tubes and a crew of 57. They are quiet, and can travel about 700 kilometers under water at a quiet speed of about five kilometers an hour. Kilos carry 18 torpedoes or SS-N-27 anti-ship missiles (with a range of 300 kilometers and launched underwater from the torpedo tubes.) The combination of quietness and cruise missiles makes Kilo very dangerous to American carriers. North Korea and Iran have also bought Kilos.

The Yuan does not look like a Kilo class when viewed in its entirety. My Jane's Warship Recognition Guide says the Yuan looks like an Oyashio by its silhouette and they're correct. The Kilo does not have the same kind of pronounced hump the Yuan has, nor does the Kilo have diving planes on the sale like the Yuan has. The Yuan's sail has a slight trapezoidal shape while the Kilo's is a perfect rectangle. The Yuan's sail is closer to the front, right in the same location and proportions of the Song which indicates a commonality of the two in the inner pressure hulls. The Kilo's sail is set near the middle of the sub.

The Yuan uses a conventional + shaped tail while the Kilo uses an unusual T shaped tail.

The Yuan is also much longer, roughly at 75m in length based on GE measurements, while the Kilo is at 66m.

The only thing the Yuan has in common with the Kilo is the look and shape of the bow along with the formation of torpedo tubes. Which is quite trivial.

The Russians also never said that the Yuan is a Kilo clone. To be more precise the Russians are up in arms claiming that the Yuan is a copy off their Amur/Lada class subs. Though the length of the Yuan, at 75m vs. 66m also for the Lada, debunks that, as well as the Russian practice of putting the sail towards near the center of the sub, which is true of the Amur/Lada as well.


The Chinese have already built two Yuans, the second one an improvement on the first. These two boats have been at sea to try out the technology that was pilfered from the Russians. A third Yuan is under construction, and it also appears to be a bit different from the first two. The first Yuan appeared to be a copy of the early model Kilo (the model 877), while the second Yuan (referred to as a Type 39B) appeared to copy the late Kilos (model 636). The third Yuan may end up being a further evolution, or Type 39C.

As many as three of the newer second type Yuans have been observed being delivered to the PLAN ESF fleet headquarters and at this stage, even newer Yuans would be impossible to count.

Preceding the Yuans was the the Type 39, or Song class. This was the first Chinese sub to have the teardrop shaped hull, and was based on the predecessor of the Kilo, the Romeo class. The Type 39A was thought to be just an improved Song, but on closer examination, especially by the Russians, it looked like a clone of the Kilos.

Debunked as above.

The Yaun class also have AIP (Air Independent Propulsion), which allows non-nuclear boats to stay underwater for days at a time. China currently has 13 Song class, 12 Kilo class, one Yuan class and 32 Romeo class boats. There are only two Han class SSNs, as the Chinese are still having a lot of problems with nuclear power in subs. Despite that, the Hans are going to sea, even though they are noisy and easily detected by Western sensors.

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PLAN appears to have 14 to 16 Song boats based on ORBAT. Only few Romeos remain, most of the older design vessels are the Ming Class which has a number of critical refinements over the Romeo.

The article once again does not even consider the Google Earth evidence with as many as six nuclear subs being spotted in one North Sea Fleet base. If two are Hans, which by the way, have been refitted and improved, what are the other four subs? It does not consider that at least three different kinds of nuclear subs are spotted by other sources in the even larger sub base at Hainan, and at least two nuclear subs have been spotted in a second North Sea Fleet sub base, while two new nuclear subs are spotted being fitted in one shipyard, while a third is being carted out of the assembly hall in that particular GE image. Also failed to count that two new Yuans are spotted being fitted in one shipyard, the GE image circa October 2007.
 
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crobato

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Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Got this from bb bismark in the CDF. Apparently it is a JL-2 launching.
 

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tphuang

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Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Got this from bb bismark in the CDF. Apparently it is a JL-2 launching.

I think this is from a while back. I'm pretty sure I saw a series of photos like this. I'm not sure if it is JL-2 though.

and also SP is so ridiculous. They will just continue to insist that Yuan is clone of Kilo, even though they look totally different.
 
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evereachyu

Banned Idiot
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Is This For Real?

中国第六艘094型战略导弹核潜艇建成下水!

据道途社最新报道,中共海军的新一代战略杀手锏-094新型战略导弹核潜艇的第六搜,于最近在中国大陆北方位于渤海湾畔的某核潜艇工厂建成下水。据悉,这是中国打造新一代战略海军的新努力,首批建造的这六艘新一代094型核战略潜艇,将会用于中国新的核反击战略。这六艘核动力战略潜艇预计将会全部部署于新建成的海南岛大型潜艇基地,那个新建成的大型山洞式基地,能够同时驻泊大约20艘各类潜艇,十分有利于一旦战争突然爆发时的潜艇保护。
随着这第六搜094型新战略导弹核潜艇建成服役,可以预料,主要用来保护它执行战备巡航任务的093型核动力攻击型潜艇,应该更早已经建成并服役了。按照一般的部署原则,一艘094型战略核潜艇在执行战备值班任务时,需要至少一艘常规攻击力很强大的093型核动力攻击潜艇的保驾护航。也就是说,至少不会低于094型战略导弹核潜艇同样数量的093型核动力攻击型潜艇应该稍早于这个时候已经进入现役。
094型战略导弹核潜艇排水量在1*000吨,主要装备16枚射程可达8000公里以上的“巨浪II”型潜射战略弹道导弹执行核报复任务。中共将其部署在海南岛基地的主要目的就是可以利用中国南海复杂多变的海底地形和水流,以实现隐蔽出航。另外,由于中国渤海和东海被美日布设的第一和第二岛链封锁的十分严密,中共战略弹道导弹核潜艇要想实现从这些地方隐蔽出航似乎很不现实,海军参谋们规划已经降噪很大的中国新一代核潜艇可以利用中国南海复杂的多路海上通道,以绕开美日等国的围堵,从而实现中国新一代核潜艇更广阔海域战略巡航。据悉,如果中共海军新一代核潜艇能够从菲律宾的水道或者马来西亚和印尼的水道实现秘密出航,不但会打破美日的岛链封锁,还能实现远达印度洋、大西洋、南太平洋等地的远程战略巡航值班。这样一来,西方国家对中共海军核潜艇的侦查和监视就要困难得多了,而且既无法判定中共核潜艇处在哪个位置,更无法判定中共核潜艇何时发动突然袭击,如此以来,中国的核盾牌才会真正发挥其应有的作用!
中共之所以首批就建造数量多达六艘的094型战略导弹核潜艇,就是为了实现2艘在远洋执行战备值班任务,2艘在基地和巡航任务区之间往返,2艘在基地进行休整补给。也就是说,按照西方专家给予的观点,中共海军要想维持最低限度的二次核威慑力量,就必须至少有2艘以上的核战略潜艇随时处于值班状态。094型战略弹道导弹核潜艇将会根据其执行何种打击任务的不同,决定其所载“巨浪II”型潜射战略弹道导弹的核弹头的实际携载量。“巨浪II”型潜射战略弹道导弹有3和6枚核弹头的不同携载选择,据说携载3枚核弹头时,其弹头的核当量很大,导弹射程也比基准射程要大;当其携载6枚较小核当量的核弹头时,虽然其单枚弹头的当量较小,但是却能打击更多的目标,而实际射程也相对较近。
094型核潜艇由于使用了新型核动力并采用了新技术,因此其各项性能十分出色。其主要性能特点请参见作者cgw316的《中国“巨浪二号”暨094型核潜艇的最新情报》一文,在此不再赘述!
如果这第六搜094型战略导弹核潜艇能够如期舾装完工,并于2009年底前如期服役的话,则中共海军在2010年前建成新一代水下核力量的努力就会如期实现,则中共的第二次核反击能力就会进入第二黄金发展机遇期。再加上几乎同期发展中的中国陆基洲际弹道导弹的实际打击能力的提升(DF-31/A和DF-41已大批进入服役状态),以及中共空军新型巡航导弹轰炸机的成批服役(轰六K,传说中引进俄罗斯的图-22M),使得中共空军“三位一体”的核打击能力第一次成为名副其实的真正核反击力量!
094型战略导弹核潜艇全部如期进入战备值班时,我看那个国家敢再对中国内政外交说三道四! (cgw316于2008.12.15)
 

crobato

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Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

While this is a Chinese military forum it helps to show consideration to non Chinese readers by providing some translation. This is the Google translation. This is not to sound mean to you, I'm thankful you bring this up, just something to think about when you or someone else has Chinese text to post.

Is This For Real?

094 ships of the Sixth China-based strategic missile nuclear submarine into the water!

According to the road ahead will be the latest agency reported that the Chinese Navy's new generation of strategic trump card -094 new type of strategic missile nuclear submarine of the sixth found in mainland China in the north bank of the Bohai Bay at a nuclear plant built into the water. It is reported that this is China's strategy to build a new generation of the Navy's new efforts to build the first of this new generation of 6-094 strategic nuclear submarines will be used to counter China's new nuclear strategy. The six strategic nuclear-powered submarines is expected to be fully deployed in the newly completed large-scale submarine base on Hainan Island, the newly-completed large-scale cave-base, at the same time be able to Zhubo about 20 types of submarines, is very conducive to all of a sudden, once the war broke out The protection of the submarine.
With this sixth-094 found a new strategic missile submarines into service, is expected to be mainly used to protect its readiness to implement the mandate of the cruise-093 nuclear-powered attack submarine, should have been completed earlier and the service. In accordance with general principles of the deployment, a 094-strategic nuclear submarine combat duty in the implementation of the mandate, at least a very strong conventional forces to attack the 093-type nuclear-powered attack submarine escort. In other words, at least not less than 094 strategic missile submarine of the same number of Type 093 nuclear-powered attack submarines should be at this time of the earlier entered active duty.
094-strategic missile nuclear submarine in the displacement of 1 * 000 tons, mainly equipped with a range of up to 16 more than 8000 km of the "wave II"-type submarine-launched ballistic missiles, strategic nuclear retaliation for the implementation of the mandate. China will deploy its base in Hainan Island, the main purpose is to use the South China Sea, and seabed topography of the complex and ever-changing currents in order to achieve hidden set sail. In addition, China's Bohai Sea and East China Sea by the United States and Japan laid the first and second blockade of the island chain is very tight, the Chinese strategic ballistic missiles from nuclear submarines in order to cover these places seem to sail far from reality, the navy chief had been planning noise reduction is The big advantage of China's new generation of nuclear submarines to the South China Sea complex multi-channel sea in order to bypass the United States and Japan and other countries of containment, China's new generation of nuclear submarines in order to achieve a broader strategic sea cruise. It is reported that if the Chinese Navy's new generation of nuclear submarines from the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia, water or water to achieve the secret voyage, the United States and Japan will not only break the blockade of the island chain, can achieve up to the Indian Ocean, Atlantic, Pacific and other places of strategic long-range cruise On duty. As a result, Western countries on the Chinese navy nuclear submarine reconnaissance and surveillance will be much more difficult, and we can not determine where in the Chinese nuclear submarine, will not be able to determine when the Chinese nuclear submarine launched a surprise attack, this year, China's nuclear shield Will really play its due role!
The reason why the Chinese Communists on the construction of the first number as many as six of the 094-strategic missile nuclear submarine is to achieve 2 in the implementation of ocean-going combat duty, 2 bases and patrolling in the area between the round-trip, 2 in the supply base for a rest . In other words, according to Western experts point of view, the Chinese Navy to maintain a minimum nuclear deterrent Second, it must have at least 2 more than the strategic nuclear submarines on duty at any time in the state. 094-strategic ballistic missile submarines will be based on the implementation of its mandate to combat what's different, its decision contained in the "wave II"-type submarine-launched strategic ballistic missiles carrying nuclear warheads actual amount. "Wave II"-3 submarine-launched strategic ballistic missile warheads and 6 carry different choices, is said to carry a nuclear warhead 3, the equivalent of a large nuclear warhead, the missile has a range greater than the benchmark range; when 6 small carry the equivalent of nuclear warheads, although the equivalent of single-warhead missiles smaller, but more able to crack down on the goal, but the actual range is relatively close.
Type 094 nuclear submarines due to the use of a new type of nuclear power and the use of new technology, so its performance is very good. Its main functions and characteristics c gw316 please see the author of "China" second wave "of nuclear submarines and 094-to-date intelligence", will not go!
If this is the sixth found 094-strategic missile submarines scheduled to be completed outfitting, and by the end of 2009 as scheduled before the service, then the Chinese navy in 2010 before the completion of a new generation of underwater nuclear forces would be hard to achieve, the Chinese A second nuclear counterattack capability will enter the second golden period of development opportunities. Together with almost the same period in the development of China's land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles to enhance the capacity of actual combat (DF-31 / A and DF-41 has a large number of service into the state), as well as the Chinese Air Force bombers, cruise missiles, a new batch of service (H - Six K, the legendary introduction of the Russian Figure-22M), the Chinese Air Force made "three-in-one" nuclear strike capability for the first time become a real force to counter nuclear!
094-strategic missile nuclear submarine entered the war on duty all the time, I do not dare to that country to make irresponsible remarks on China's domestic and foreign! (Cgw316 in 2008.12.15)

Is it for real? I don't know. It helps to get more pictures. The last pictures appear to indicate a building program on the way.

Is it logical? I think it is. In another thread, I've fairly computed the ability of base infrastructure in China that can support nuclear submarines on dock. Linying - 6 to 8. Jiangghezhuang - 6 to 8. Xiaopingdao - 2. Basically we're looking at 14 to 18 subs that can be parked at one time without any subs in patrol transit. We can assume 3 to 4 refurbished Hans, one refurbished Xia, the rest can be 093s and 094s.
 

tphuang

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Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

i can't say how many 094s they have, but here is a new photo of one of the units.
094dec16qp3.jpg
 
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