PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Yes, this argument is pointless because i dont think that this people exist, or if they ever existed, are no longer in position of power, because the domestic industry has shown it can do it.



if china can go to the hassle of developing a totally new submarine just for SLBM tests, it surely can develop a combat submarine using that tech. And why would china want a littoral submarine ?? the west pacific is not the baltic sea nor the black sea. There is a reason why japan´s submarines are the largest SSK´s in the world. Ships have to cover great distances. And china has a big coast. China has bought the su-30 and sov destroyer because in the past they had urgent need for tech/solutions, and couldnt wait for domestic solutions. They were needed at the time. Today, china doesnt need lada.

not disagreeing with you here that China doesn't need lada imo. But at the end of the day, I'm not sitting in the negotiation room. PLAN is.

And if they do for whatever reason get it, the best argument you can make regarding lada is that it would be a generational improvement over the current Chinese submarine used in the littoral role. In the case of Sov, I did not see any reason for them to purchase it back then either as I put in my blog entry, but they ended up purchasing it.

 

[escobar]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

A submarine flotilla of the NSF conducting formation navigation training...

 

[luhai]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Starting to like this possible Lada deal. Russia is obviously stuck & China can help them to take this long delayed project over the finish line. Maybe that's why the report says the Lada will be built in China.
China can definitely use this littoral design to complement their bigger ocean going Yuans in the East & South China Sea.

well, if it is the case, then I think perhaps China is thinking more along the lines of a possible export design than for its own use. Perhaps same for Su-35, think about it both Su-35 and Lada are long marketed designs that never had any real customer, perhaps it just needs a little push from China to become successful joint projects and compete with the west on the international market. Though I don't know about prospect for international sales though, since primary customer for China is Pakistan and primary customer for Russia is India.

 

[plawolf]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

well, if it is the case, then I think perhaps China is thinking more along the lines of a possible export design than for its own use. Perhaps same for Su-35, think about it both Su-35 and Lada are long marketed designs that never had any real customer, perhaps it just needs a little push from China to become successful joint projects and compete with the west on the international market. Though I don't know about prospect for international sales though, since primary customer for China is Pakistan and primary customer for Russia is India.

That just won't work for anyone.

The Su35 and Lada are exports flops for a reason, and they are unlikely to go from zero to rockstar even if China bought them because China buying them will do nothing to address the underlying issues that made them flops to start with. Not to mention the fact that both the Su35 and Lada are essentially complete projects, so there really isn't much China can contribute to help them even if they wanted to, not that China has shown any indication of wanting to do that. Hell, increasingly, the main reason Chinese weapons are not selling that much internationally is because they are not offering their best stuff while everyone expect the US are putting up the best they have, and often weapons better than what their own forces are using on sale. If the Chinese are not willing to offer their best to sell themselves, what makes you think they will give their best stuff to the Russians to install in their offerings to sell to the highest bidder?

The Russians will also have major issues with taking Chinese technical support to help with their projects and it is almost certain that their pride will make that an impossibility in all but the most extreme of circumstances.

So, in short, there is just no way either side will agree to any such joint ventures.

 

[FORBIN]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

For the future SSN type 095 which is under construction, about 2, in service for 2015 ??

Other thing number of SS Song, on many sites/book i see 13, but sometimes 16 ?

I know NSF possesses at least 8 at Qingdao 2è Flot Subm.
ESF maybe 4 ? at Daxiedao 22è Flot Subm. with 8 Yuan. Or tranferred at NSF or SSF ?
SSF : 4 at Yulin 32è Flot Subm. with 4 Kilo.

For number and year commissioning, very difficult to know everything ?


If someone know more ?

 

[franco-russe]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Difficult to know about Type 095. The first may have launched at Huludao, and thy may build as many as 10 of this class, with one commissioning annually 2013-22.

I hold 16 SONG (320-329, 313-318), deployed the way you indicate.

tphuang did a very thorough piece on PLAN’s conventional submarine fleet in the China Air and Naval Power blog

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

on 7 January 2011., which you will find very useful. A second piece on 10 February 2012 IMHO leans too much on a single Chinese source, but reflects the transfer of SONG 320-323 from Daxiedao to Qingdao 2010-12.

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

For the future SSN type 095 which is under construction, about 2, in service for 2015 ??

Other thing number of SS Song, on many sites/book i see 13, but sometimes 16 ?

I know NSF possesses at least 8 at Qingdao 2è Flot Subm.
ESF maybe 4 ? at Daxiedao 22è Flot Subm. with 8 Yuan. Or tranferred at NSF or SSF ?
SSF : 4 at Yulin 32è Flot Subm. with 4 Kilo.

For number and year commissioning, very difficult to know everything ?


If someone know more ?

just on the conventional stuff, not sure how many Songs are transferred to NSF. Guess is 8 at Qingdao. But since the 22nd flotilla has received 8 Yuan by now, all of its Song submarines should've transferred out. I'm not sure if any of the new Yuans is going to SSF at this point.

We are probably at 8 commissioned and another 4 launched Yuan at this point.

 

[franco-russe]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Yes, GE shows eight YUAN's are seen at Daxiedao, no SONG's. I have no idea where the last four SONG's have gone.

As to YUAN II (039B), I am confident that six have been delivered (four from Wuhan, two from Jiangnan). There may be one more (I think not, though) and one was recently launched at Wuhan. No idea where nos. 5 and 6 have gone, either, but new submarines seem to spend some considerable time working up at the Submarine Test and Training Base at Xiaopingdao.

 

[FORBIN]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

just on the conventional stuff, not sure how many Songs are transferred to NSF. Guess is 8 at Qingdao. But since the 22nd flotilla has received 8 Yuan by now, all of its Song submarines should've transferred out. I'm not sure if any of the new Yuans is going to SSF at this point.

We are probably at 8 commissioned and another 4 launched Yuan at this point.

Yes i read at least 12 provided, and up to 16, according to economic growth.

They are AIP ? all ?

 

[hmmwv]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Yes i read at least 12 provided, and up to 16, according to economic growth.

They are AIP ? all ?

Yes all Yuans are AIP.