PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[leibowitz]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I see this news as a shameless attempt of the Russians to claim Chinese's submarine success. Think about it, Lada and Yuan classes look almost identical that even the most seasoned military observer would have a hard time telling them apart. I foresee the Russians to claim every Yuan submarine produced from here on as a Lada and a Russian success, with the Western press happily yap that shit up.

If you think about it, China might be happy for the Russians to push those claims. It helps them sell their goods, after all, and it's in the interest of China to keep the Russian military-industrial complex alive and kicking. Also, foreign analysts would consistently underestimate the amount of original research that goes on in the Chinese defense industry, which weakens the rationale for Western defense spending and makes the job of keeping up with their defense firms much easier.

 

[asif iqbal]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I do not think that Chinese SSN have been deployed to far out seas, so I doubt any of them would be good enough to escort Liaoning or maybe they will it's hard to say so that's why I think a new Type 095 SSN would be the answer

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Well, they did not do that with Kilos, did they? The article indicates the vessels would be built in China so they would not need to do that...they would be building them themselves and will know all there is to know about them.

It's just an interesting development.The Lada Class that these are based on has not performed up to the Russian expectations. They built one, extensively tested it while starting three others, and then stopped construction on those three.

I'm still pretty wary of this report.

They totally did that with Kilo by the way. There are always Kilo submarine at HD shipyard getting modifications done.

Even the largest Amur is only 1650 tons. The Yuan, IIRC, is about 3,000 tons.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems to imply sacrificing a lot of capability (increased weapons load, staying power) going from a Soviet style, ocean going SSK to those smaller European ones (unless the 095 is so wonderful that the PLAN will only use SSKs for more mundane missions from now on).

Different sizes result in different roles. There are plenty of navies with smaller submarines that are modern and effective. Larger submarine doesn't mean better.

I see this news as a shameless attempt of the Russians to claim Chinese's submarine success. Think about it, Lada and Yuan classes look almost identical that even the most seasoned military observer would have a hard time telling them apart. I foresee the Russians to claim every Yuan submarine produced from here on as a Lada and a Russian success, with the Western press happily yap that shit up.

I wouldn't completely dismiss this. I don't think this makes sense for PLAN, because Russia is having trouble with Lada design themselves and who knows when it will really be ready. But you have to remember that there are people in China that benefit from buying Russian stuff, even if doesn't help PLAN. I believe they have had discussions about Lada like they had about other items that we are hearing about, but I don't think China would purchase it.

 

[Franklin]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Does this story fall into the same categorie as the SU-35 deals ?

China Mulls Buying Russian Submarines

State arms exporter Rosoboronexport has signed a framework agreement with China on the joint development and construction of four non-nuclear Amur-1650 conventional submarines for the Chinese Navy, a news report said Thursday.

The final contract is tentatively worth $2 billion and is expected to be signed by the parties no earlier than 2015, Kommersant reported.

The agreement stipulates for two of the submarines to be built in Russia and two in China, with special provisions in place in the contract to ensure that no intellectual property is copied from the Russian side, a source close to Rosoboronexport told the business daily.

An additional agreement for the first stage of work could be signed by the end of the year, he said, adding that a Russian contractor had not yet been selected for construction of the submarines.

China may become the first buyer of the Amur-1650 submarines, beating out India and Venezuela, both of which previously expressed interest, Kommersant said.

Another source close to the arms exporter said the submarine contract "is very important for Russia and tops the presidential list of projects with China."

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[hmmwv]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I believe Ladas are mostly stuck on AIP problems now, if the report is accurate that China will use its own AIP then that adds a little bit of creditability to this report. If that's the case then China's intention is to get a littoral sub design cheaply and quickly while gaining experience in system integration.

 

[snake65]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I believe Ladas are mostly stuck on AIP problems now, if the report is accurate that China will use its own AIP then that adds a little bit of creditability to this report. If that's the case then China's intention is to get a littoral sub design cheaply and quickly while gaining experience in system integration.

LADA is not stuck with AIP problems simply because there is no AIP to speak about. The one which Rubin design bureau is proposing utilizes chemical reactor for cracking Diesel fuel and is still at lab stage. LADA's biggest problem is her main engine able of only half of the design output. Her sonar suite is also below expectations and is not marrying well with the CCS.

 

[kroko]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Does this story fall into the same categorie as the SU-35 deals ?

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the moscow times is quoting kommersant. Wasnt kommersant the same news source that affirmed that china was interested in buying su-35? first su-35, now amur submarine ???

But you have to remember that there are people in China that benefit from buying Russian stuff, even if doesn't help PLAN. I believe they have had discussions about Lada like they had about other items that we are hearing about, but I don't think China would purchase it.

Sorry, but i dont believe that. Who are those people that you mentioned? That doesnt make sense. China has always strived to make its own, even making copies without license.

 

[asif iqbal]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

So China is buying submarine from Russia? I will believe it when the subs are in PLAN service

There is massive political pressure on Chinese by the government to make everything in house, you really think they will give this contract to Russia

Plus China has advanced submarine technology and have offered SSK in the class of U-214 to Pakistan so its out of the question

 

[A.Man]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Inside the Bohai Shipyard of Huludao

 

[ahadicow]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Inside the Bohai Shipyard of Huludao

Is the submarine burning? The smoke seem to come from behind the sub tho