PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[NikeX]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Have to? Look at photos of the Type 094 for instance. The openings along the sides are obviously going to be noisy. Put on an intelligence analyst's hat. Do you think the Chinese don't know that??? So perhaps they don't really want it to be TOO quiet. Now why might that be? Perhaps to cover something that while extremely quiet, is still not completely silent? What could that be that would be significant enough to compromise the sub's stealth?

I could give you some more hints, but this is for a hard-core analyst that really knows his/her stuff. So the last piece of advice if you are one of those might be to strap on a "Depends"... when the realization hits you, and you consider one particular news story you know of, you might need it!

Quiet subs are stealthy subs. Self radiated noise from a submarine trying to conduct operations defeats its purpose. Self radiated noise from a submarine masks that subs sensors making detection of the enemy all that much harder. In wartime a noisy submarine quickly becomes a dead submarine

 

[Mysterre]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I believe these subs have retractable vent covers that close the vents once the sub dives.

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

well i do not think that they are the "loudest" in the Ocean, China has actually been working hard on Submarines and modern Chinese SSN are very capable, infact Pakistan has been studying U-214 for years and they dropped the deal in favour Chinese SSK, and that tells us alot

What was the price difference between the two? That could also tell us quite a bot...in addition to the support and maintenance help they are apt to get more easily from the PLAN.

 

[asif iqbal]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

What was the price difference between the two? That could also tell us quite a bot...in addition to the support and maintenance help they are apt to get more easily from the PLAN.

have no idea about cost issues, but U-214 deal was going to be same as Agosta 90B, full ToT with first few deliverys with the last one being built at Karachi Dockyard

but at the end of the day with China we get fast delivery also, with deliverys at breakneck speed, like what happened with F22Ps and also the ability to ask for specific requirments like inco-operating likes of Babur Cruise missile, which is Pakistans indigenous cruise missile, plus the usual no strings attached policy from China

apart from that, the general shift from Western equipment which is vunverable to sanctions to Chinese built equipment for the Navy is good because it makes integration for everything else that much easier

 

[asif iqbal]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

SSBN are due to continue to be fundamental requirments for modern Navys, US and UK both have replacement programmes in place for their respective Ohio and Vanguard Class SSBNs, but are extremely expensive programmes to have, costing into the 10s of billions

so what does SSBN hod for China? I think Type 092 never operated a single detterent role, and Type 094 SSBN has still not lanched a JL-2 missile, also none of SSNs and SSBNs have operated outside Chinese territorial waters hence defeating their purpose? so this suggests in terms of nuclear submarines all is not well with Chinese Navy

so far we have seen how many Type 094s, is it 3 or 4, i then dont know why Type 096 is under development if current Type 094s have not delivered the desired effect

however operating SSBNs is altogether a totaly different matter, Captains of nuclear submarines have to be the best of the best, the elite top of commanding officers, are captains of Chinese nuclear submarines of this calibre?

can they diffirentiate between oppourtunity and risk, do they they run or hide when detected, can they hide between under water landmarks, can they operate in shallow rish hidden waters, can they use the oceans salinty to their advantage? so many questions remain

i think Chinese nuclear submarines is a grey area which needs to be better understood

 

[antiterror13]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

SSBN are due to continue to be fundamental requirments for modern Navys, US and UK both have replacement programmes in place for their respective Ohio and Vanguard Class SSBNs, but are extremely expensive programmes to have, costing into the 10s of billions

so what does SSBN hod for China? I think Type 092 never operated a single detterent role, and Type 094 SSBN has still not lanched a JL-2 missile, also none of SSNs and SSBNs have operated outside Chinese territorial waters hence defeating their purpose? so this suggests in terms of nuclear submarines all is not well with Chinese Navy

so far we have seen how many Type 094s, is it 3 or 4, i then dont know why Type 096 is under development if current Type 094s have not delivered the desired effect

however operating SSBNs is altogether a totaly different matter, Captains of nuclear submarines have to be the best of the best, the elite top of commanding officers, are captains of Chinese nuclear submarines of this calibre?

can they diffirentiate between oppourtunity and risk, do they they run or hide when detected, can they hide between under water landmarks, can they operate in shallow rish hidden waters, can they use the oceans salinty to their advantage? so many questions remain

i think Chinese nuclear submarines is a grey area which needs to be better understood

Actually Jl-2A has been launched at least a couple times (successful). Of course it wasn't launched toward enemy' territories ... nobody has and hopefully it remains so.

In my opinion, China will never use SSBN as a single detterent role. At least China will always have land based ICBM in the next 50 years, the same case for Russia and the USA. The UK and France are different, their land mass is very tiny compared to China, the USA and Russia. They made an astute decision to abandon land based ICBM. For air based, ICBM .. the only option that will remain viable is Cruise Missile .. and China has operated it for sometime now (also of course the USA and Russia). The role of long range bomber is numbered, too risky and too expensive

 

[asif iqbal]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Actually Jl-2A has been launched at least a couple times (successful). Of course it wasn't launched toward enemy' territories ... nobody has and hopefully it remains so.

In my opinion, China will never use SSBN as a single detterent role. At least China will always have land based ICBM in the next 50 years, the same case for Russia and the USA. The UK and France are different, their land mass is very tiny compared to China, the USA and Russia. They made an astute decision to abandon land based ICBM. For air based, ICBM .. the only option that will remain viable is Cruise Missile .. and China has operated it for sometime now (also of course the USA and Russia). The role of long range bomber is numbered, too risky and too expensive

SSBN and SSN are too valuable to let go for any modern navy regardless of location and geography

Royal has set aside a plan for roughy £15-20 billion (enough for 4 aircraft carriers) for next generation of SSBN to replace Trident, but then Royal Navy are keen on Nuclear Submarines anyway as seen in Falklands War in 1982

US has plan to replace its Ohio Class come nearing 2030, and they have bases all over the world, even the Russians are making SSBN

when enemy nations hear the world "Nuclear attack submarines" its enough for them to buckle, infact it was enough to force Argentina to attack Falklands Islands 6 months early prematurely, resulting in a defeat, had they waited till end of 1982 like planned they probably would have won the war, but they were tricked into believing a UK Royal Navy nuclear submarine was on its way from the Mediterranean and they reacted by invading promptly

for China Nuclear submarines are a must, they are faster, quiter and can stay submerged longer than conventional submarines, that is enough advantage

 

[asif iqbal]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

in the July Issue of Warship Magazine, there is a article on Pakistan Navys submarine force present and future

it states (as have other media outlets) that the deal for 6 x Chinese SSKs has been signed and are now under development

it also states that Pakistan is planning a force of 14 submarines ( on top of the current 5) and most importantly Pakistan is now in close talks with China over design and construction of a nuclear Submarine after India leased one from Russia

given Pakistans extensive experience in nuclear technology it wont be much of a big problem, but i am not sure how we are going to train the crews and also the price tag is very high, the SSN must have a requirment of keeping up with a carrier task force and operate solo i.e. all on its own

if Pakistan adds a SSN to its Navy it would be a milestone in the development of the Navy and Indian Carriers will then have another much more potent sub-surface threat

since India has a programme for nuclear submarines now Pakistan has to counter, so i think it is a distinct possibility

in addition the word of a Pakistani SSN in the area would tie down alot of ASW hardware, India will exhaust alot of resources in wartime looking for the submarine if they know a SSN is out on patrol, a tatic which can be used to Pakistans advantage, the perfect diversion for a real attack from a different angle

 

[antiterror13]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Do you think Pakistan would be interested to acquire HAN class SSN ex China Navy. It is obviously not a world class SSN ... but heyyy SSN is a SSN. I think China Navy would be more than happy to sell (mate price) it to Pakistan Navy

China navy have 4 Type 091, 5 Type 093 and 2 Type 097 SSN

 

[timepass]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Plus there were news on the different forums (PAKDEF etc) that PN officials extensively involve with their Chinese counter parts in the development of QUING class (SSK) as they are having enough experience with Augusta 90B with AIPs plus Germans & French gave them handsome info about their products (U-214 & Merlin) which PN is trying to incorporate in QUING class with SLCM (Babur) launch through tubes, same as like tailor made JF17 for PAF.

Furthermore, 6 SUBS are never the less is confirmed through PN sources (please don’t ask me for links).

perhaps this might assist....