PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[asif iqbal]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

nuclear submarines are just great vessals to have

the best way to hunt for a enemy submarines is to deploy ur own hunter killer submarine, no amount of ASW can subsitute a submarine

these days a single nuclear submarine can attack ships and land targets using cruise misiles, and deploy special forces, they are indispensible tools of modern naval warfare

hope China can deploy a SSN or SSBN to far away seas and oceans, the threat of a single submarine is enough to force the enemy surface fleet to change tatics entirely

during WWII a single Japanese submarine launched 6 torpedos and sunk a entire aircraft carrier the USS Wasp and sunk a destroyer and damaged a battleship

 

[Quickie]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Are the loading a torpedo or a cruise missile in a torpedo-like casing?

At one end of it is what looks like fin-like feature that is more suited for use in water than for flying in the air. Pump jet propulsion?

 

[hmmwv]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Are the loading a torpedo or a cruise missile in a torpedo-like casing?

That's a capsule.

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

during WWII a single Japanese submarine launched 6 torpedos and sunk a entire aircraft carrier the USS Wasp and sunk a destroyer and damaged a battleship

I have always contended that submarines are the most dangerous threats to carriers of all types.

The sinking of the Wasp happened in 1942 on 15 September. 6 Type 95 torpedoes were fired at the Wasp by the Japanese submarine I-19 as the Wasp was performing escort duties along with the carrier USS Hornet and the battleship USS North Carolina and their escorts. The Wasp manuevered and avoided three of them, but three hit. One of the three that missed hit the USS O'Brien, another hit the North Carolins.

Of those that hit the Wasp, one broached and came out of the water and actually struck her above the waterline, the other two below and in the vicinity of some of her magazines and gasoline storage at 14:45 in the afternoon.

Within 50 minutes the order to abandon ship was given as all fire fighting equipment that was left was proving ineffetive because of so many secondary explosions from magazines, ordinance and gas bunkers. I took almost an hour to abandon the vessel which was completed at just after 16:00 hours.

Although fires continued, the Wasp stayed afloat into the night and was showing no signs of sinking.

Finally, at 21:00 hours, over 6 hours after being hit, the Admiral in charge ordered a destroyer, the USS Lansdowne, to sink her. Three more torpedoes were put into her just after 21:00 hours after which she sank. 193 men were killed in the attack, 1,946 were saved. It took a lot to sink a US carrier even in World War II.

Now it is much harder. During the SINKEX for the USS America, the US Navy poured fire into her, from gun fire, to Harpoon missiles, to almost every type of ordinance they had. The actual amount is classified, but sailors do give hints and they indicate that they were all amazed. In the end, explosive ordinance specialists had to rig and detonate demolition explosive devices on her to put her down.

 

[Maggern]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I have always contended that submarines are the most dangerous threats to carriers of all types.

The sinking of the Wasp happened in 1942 on 15 September. 6 Type 95 torpedoes were fired at the Wasp by the Japanese submarine I-19 as the Wasp was performing escort duties along with the carrier USS Hornet and the battleship USS North Carolina and their escorts. The Wasp manuevered and avoided three of them, but three hit. One of the three that missed hit the USS O'Brien, another hit the North Carolins.

Of those that hit the Wasp, one broached and came out of the water and actually struck her above the waterline, the other two below and in the vicinity of some of her magazines and gasoline storage at 14:45 in the afternoon.

Within 50 minutes the order to abandon ship was given as all fire fighting equipment that was left was proving ineffetive because of so many secondary explosions from magazines, ordinance and gas bunkers. I took almost an hour to abandon the vessel which was completed at just after 16:00 hours.

Although fires continued, the Wasp stayed afloat into the night and was showing no signs of sinking.

Finally, at 21:00 hours, over 6 hours after being hit, the Admiral in charge ordered a destroyer, the USS Lansdowne, to sink her. Three more torpedoes were put into her just after 21:00 hours after which she sank. 193 men were killed in the attack, 1,946 were saved. It took a lot to sink a US carrier even in World War II.

Now it is much harder. During the SINKEX for the USS America, the US Navy poured fire into her, from gun fire, to Harpoon missiles, to almost every type of ordinance they had. The actual amount is classified, but sailors do give hints and they indicate that they were all amazed. In the end, explosive ordinance specialists had to rig and detonate demolition explosive devices on her to put her down.

I guess that's why today people are mostly talking about 'mission killing' rather than actual sinking....

PS: THanks for the history lesson, btw. I'm learning so much interesting history from you and popeye

 

[Jeff Head]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I guess that's why today people are mostly talking about 'mission killing' rather than actual sinking....

PS: THanks for the history lesson, btw. I'm learning so much interesting history from you and popeye

You are welcome. History is among the greatest of teachers and if we do not heed her instruction, we generally get to learn the lesson again that our grandfather had to learn.

Problem is so many politicians willingly discard those lessons and then it is the young men and women of their militaryies who carry the load of learning.

SD is a great site...and with people like bd popeye, we have ample opportunity to understand the lessons of history on both sides of the pond.

BZ.

 

[asif iqbal]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I agree with you Jeff!

Lone Submarines have killed aircraft carriers on numerous occasions, Japanese lost Taiho and Shinano and US lost USS Yorktown and USS Wasp, all 4 carriers lost to Submarines

HMS Corageous, sunk by German submarine U-20 and HMS Ark Royal, sunk by German submarine U-81

INS Unryu and INS Shokaku were both sunk in 1944 by American submarines

and since the end of WWII only 2 Navys have sunk surface vessals, Royals Navys HMS Conqueror sanks Argentine cruiser General Belgrano and PNS Hangor was a Pakistani Daphné class submarine, which during the 1971 Indo-Pakistani War sank the Indian frigate INS Khukri and damaged INS Kirpan, unless that is if you count ROKS Cheonan

in the modern era i think Nuclear Submarines are far much more formidable, they are fast, quite and can stay submerged for a long time

 

[Vini_Vidi_Vici]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

in the modern era i think Nuclear Submarines are far much more formidable, they are fast, quite and can stay submerged for a long time

Yeah, but Chinese nuclear subs still have to drastically improve. They're still the loudest in the ocean.

 

[showmerancher]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Yeah, but Chinese nuclear subs still have to drastically improve. They're still the loudest in the ocean.

Have to? Look at photos of the Type 094 for instance. The openings along the sides are obviously going to be noisy. Put on an intelligence analyst's hat. Do you think the Chinese don't know that??? So perhaps they don't really want it to be TOO quiet. Now why might that be? Perhaps to cover something that while extremely quiet, is still not completely silent? What could that be that would be significant enough to compromise the sub's stealth?

I could give you some more hints, but this is for a hard-core analyst that really knows his/her stuff. So the last piece of advice if you are one of those might be to strap on a "Depends"... when the realization hits you, and you consider one particular news story you know of, you might need it!

 

[asif iqbal]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Yeah, but Chinese nuclear subs still have to drastically improve. They're still the loudest in the ocean.

well i do not think that they are the "loudest" in the Ocean, China has actually been working hard on Submarines and modern Chinese SSN are very capable, infact Pakistan has been studying U-214 for years and they dropped the deal in favour Chinese SSK, and that tells us alot