PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

[hmmwv]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

The wonder must be why it was published in, not very good, English.

Because it's published by the author and the school so it's very likely they hired some students to do it, translation services in China are generally pretty good but they suck at translating technical documents and are rather expensive.

Come on guys this is Gizmodo, the laughing stock of the gadget world.

 

[A.Man]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Found This On The Internet (HSH): A Detailed Chinese Submarine List (SSK)


作者：大黑鱼

东海舰队

舷号 型号 附属部队 下水年份 服役年份 部署
314 039G1 SSK 潜艇第22支队 2003 2004 东海舰队
322 039G SSK 潜艇第22支队 2000 2001 东海舰队
330 039A SSG 潜艇第22支队 2004 2006 东海舰队
331 039A SSG 潜艇第22支队 2007 2009 东海舰队
332 039A SSG 潜艇第22支队 2007 2009 东海舰队
333 039A SSG 潜艇第22支队 2008 2010 东海舰队
334 039B SSG 潜艇第22支队 2010 2011 东海舰队
335 039B SSG 潜艇第22支队 2010 2011 东海舰队
336 039B SSG 潜艇第22支队 2010 2012 东海舰队
337 039B SSG 潜艇第22支队 2011 2012 东海舰队

364 877 SSK 潜艇第42支队 - 1994 东海舰队
365 877 SSK 潜艇第42支队 - 1995 东海舰队
366 636 SSK 潜艇第42支队 1997 1998 东海舰队
367 636 SSK 潜艇第42支队 1998 1999 东海舰队
368 636M SSK 潜艇第42支队 2004 2004 东海舰队
369 636M SSK 潜艇第42支队 2004 2005 东海舰队
370 636M SSK 潜艇第42支队 2005 2005 东海舰队
371 636M SSK 潜艇第42支队 2005 2005 东海舰队


北海舰队


舷号 型号 附属部队 下水年份 服役年份 部署
352 035A SS 潜艇第2支队 1986 1987 北海舰队
353 035A SS 潜艇第2支队 1987 1988 北海舰队
354 035A SS 潜艇第2支队 1988 1989 北海舰队
315 039G1 SSK 潜艇第2支队 2003 2004 北海舰队
316 039G1 SSK 潜艇第2支队 2004 2005 北海舰队
320 039 SSK 潜艇第2支队 1994 1999 北海舰队
321 039G SSK 潜艇第2支队 1999 2001 北海舰队
323 039G SSK 潜艇第2支队 2002 2003 北海舰队
327 039G1 SSK 潜艇第2支队 2004 2006 北海舰队
328 039G1 SSK 潜艇第2支队 2004 2005 北海舰队

356 035G SS 潜艇第12支队 1989 1990 北海舰队
357 035G SS 潜艇第12支队 1990 1991 北海舰队
358 035G SS 潜艇第12支队 1991 1992 北海舰队
359 035G SS 潜艇第12支队 1992 1993 北海舰队
360 035G SS 潜艇第12支队 1993 1994 北海舰队
361 035G SS 潜艇第12支队 1994 1995 北海舰队
362 035G SS 潜艇第12支队 1995 1996 北海舰队
363 035G SS 潜艇第12支队 1996 1997 北海舰队

l南海舰队

舷号 型号 附属部队 下水年份 服役年份 部署
324 039G1 SSK 潜艇第32支队 2002 2003 南海舰队
325 039G1 SSK 潜艇第32支队 2002 2004 南海舰队
326 039G1 SSK 潜艇第32支队 2004 2005 南海舰队
329 039G1 SSK 潜艇第32支队 2004 2006 南海舰队
372 636M SSK 潜艇第32支队 2005 2006 南海舰队
373 636M SSK 潜艇第32支队 2004 2005 南海舰队
374 636M SSK 潜艇第32支队 2005 2006 南海舰队
375 636M SSK 潜艇第32支队 2005 2006 南海舰队

305 035G SS 潜艇第72支队 1997 1998 南海舰队
306 035G SS 潜艇第72支队 1997 1998 南海舰队
307 035G SS 潜艇第72支队 1998 1999 南海舰队
308 035G SS 潜艇第72支队 1998 1999 南海舰队
309 035B SS 潜艇第72支队 1999 2000 南海舰队
310 035B SS 潜艇第72支队 2000 2001 南海舰队
311 035B SS 潜艇第72支队 2000 2001 南海舰队
312 035B SS 潜艇第72支队 2001 2002 南海舰队
313 035B SS 潜艇第72支队 2002 2003 南海舰队

共 039A/B 8艘；039 13艘；基洛 12艘；035 20艘。另039C试验艇1艘。
其中新型艇34艘，共54艘。

 

[franco-russe]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Thanks a lot, A. Man. What we dou without you?

If it is correct – and I suppose that it generally must be – then let it be said straight away that tphuang was wright about YUAN I (four Type 039A) and I was wrong. There are, however, some peculiarities – there are too few SONG’s – 13 Type 039/039G/G1 – where 16 were expected; It has 313 as a MING (Tpe 035B) where most sources have it as a SONG.

And in the summary 1 Type 039C is mentioned but it is not listed – that must be the big experimental submarine.

 

[hmmwv]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

It's probably because 039A performed well so PLAN decided to switch to 039A production ahead of schedule. Similarly there were rumors that originally there were 12 Jiangwei IIs planned but due to the success of 054 production was terminated at 10. I've heard 漏斗子 kind of confirmed that 313 is one of the later 035B, and 72nd Sub Zhidui only has and can only support 035. It made sense because we counted a total of 12 Songs produced from various yards plus the prototype 320.

 

[franco-russe]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Well, I do not know. There is no relation between the end of SONG construction in 2005 and the results of YUAN trials, which began in April 2005.

I still think there are 16 SONG’s: 4 at Qingdao, 4 at Yulin and 8 at Daxiedao. That is also the number quoted in the China Air and Naval Power blog article of 7 January 2011 on China’s conventional submarine fleet.

Having looked at Chinese sources, they all but one say 313 is a SONG. Where there is disagreement is about the pennant numbers running from 320-329, 313 to 318 or 319, which would mean 16 or 17 respectively.

What does make a lot of sense is the reported transfer of SONG’s from ESF to SSF (also mentioned in the blog update of conventional submarines dated 10 February 2012. That explains a lot of things, including the new submarine pier being built at Qingdao.

The latest GE update of Qingdao 20.04.11 shows 1 SONG in Qianjin Navy Yard and 5 SONG’s and 2 MING’s at three piers in the submarine base, plus a pack of 4 MING/ROMEO’s at the fixed pier (they do not want to park SONG’s like that).

 

[tphuang]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Thanks a lot, A. Man. What we dou without you?

If it is correct – and I suppose that it generally must be – then let it be said straight away that tphuang was wright about YUAN I (four Type 039A) and I was wrong. There are, however, some peculiarities – there are too few SONG’s – 13 Type 039/039G/G1 – where 16 were expected; It has 313 as a MING (Tpe 035B) where most sources have it as a SONG.

And in the summary 1 Type 039C is mentioned but it is not listed – that must be the big experimental submarine.

I found that weird too, but according to the sources I went through, 13 was the final production run. With 320 as the prototype and 12 more. From that, I can only conclude that I was originally wrong about it. I assumed they would finish a production run of 16, but it looks like they might never have done so.

 

[MastanKhan]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Well the way I see it with submarine appearance vs capabilities:
"Modern" appearance usually entails more modern/capable platform
"Less modern" appearance does not entail less capable platform

I think the industrial capability (and other factors like previous experience etc) of the home country when a sub is built, or prior to when said sub is built, is a more logical way of assessing how good it could be.



Well there certainly hasn't been massive breakthroughs in sub tech and ASW in the last few decades indeed. Sub warfare seems to be very evolutionary rather than revolutionary compared to say, aircraft in which VLO was a game changer.

Hi,

Oh really---how about the newer high speed torpedoes----how about sub surface nuc capable torpedoes---how about the hole in the ocean technology---how about LIDAR---.

How about asking Jeffhead about some of the capabilities of the Seawolf and Virginia class subs----that were not brought into discussion in the previous posts.

 

[franco-russe]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I found that weird too, but according to the sources I went through, 13 was the final production run. With 320 as the prototype and 12 more. From that, I can only conclude that I was originally wrong about it. I assumed they would finish a production run of 16, but it looks like they might never have done so.

Yes, I guessed that the new submarine list was the basis for the 2012 update on China’s conventinal submarine fleet. The same person who did this list apparently did an earlier version (with some historical detail) four years ago. There SONG 317 and 318 were missing, but 313 was listed as a SONG in 32 Submarine Flotilla, not as a MING in 72 Flotilla. I would still prefer to think that SONG is correct.

I find it easiest to relate to what we see at Qingdao. The oldest MING, 342, is missing from the list, meaning it has decommissioned. As there are now six SONG’s at Qingdao (the original four plus two ex Daxiedao), a second MING (352?) has likely also decommissioned . The four submarines lying in a pack are likely all non-operational, probably the two MING’s and two ROMEO’s (273 and 350). Two MING’s at pier 3 are probably operational (353 and 354).

Doing submarine OOB, that is apt to produce severe headaches…

P.S. I should have quoted the Chinese list for three ex 22 Submarine Flotilla SONG's now in 2 Submarine Flotilla Qingdao: 320 (which will be easily recognised), 321 and 323.

 

[escobar]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

Yuan Sub

 

[franco-russe]

Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

I found that weird too, but according to the sources I went through, 13 was the final production run. With 320 as the prototype and 12 more. From that, I can only conclude that I was originally wrong about it. I assumed they would finish a production run of 16, but it looks like they might never have done so.

But, but:

In his China Defense Blog, Xinhui wrote 22.04.09:

Great Wall 218
For the first time, PLAN officially released their naming convention for its conventional-powered submarines during the current Naval Review; they are called the "Great Wall"

Photo of GreatWall 218, one of the PLAN submarines opened to senior naval officers from 29 nations. Photo released by Xinhua News

Great Wall (GW) 218 is a member of the 32nd conventional-powered submarine Zhidui or flotilla (Unit number 92858), South Sea Fleet. The 32nd is commanded by Sr Captin Ma Lixin headquartered at Dr Evil’s secret lair, aka Sanya, Hainan island. (Here for Sr Captain Ma's bio)


Name Number Type
GW213 313 039 (Song)
GW218 318 039
GW220 320 039
GW226 326 039
GW229 329 039
GW230 330 039

GW272 373 636M (Kilo)
GW273 373 636M
GW274 374 636M
GW275 375 636M

GW203 303 033 (Ming)
GW204 304 033

新华网青岛4月22日电 （记者李宣良、颜昊）前来青岛出席庆祝中国人民解放军成立60周年多国海军活动的各国海军代表团团长，22日上午应邀参观了中国海军的主力舰艇。各位海军高级军官对中国海军装备建设的成就和军事透明度普遍表示祝贺和赞赏。

　　各国海军代表团参观的3艘舰艇都是近几年才服役中国海军的，分别是“长城218”号常规动力潜艇、“温州”号导弹护卫舰以及“和平方舟”号医院船。海军副司令员顾文根表示，这3艘舰艇都是中国自己设计制造的，代表了中国海军装备的最新水平。

The accompanying picture clearly shows the gangway of a SONG with the inscription长城218艇

Everyone is free to think as he likes, I shall stay with 16 SONG’s, including 317 and 318.