PLAN Type 035/039/091/092 Submarine Thread

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kroko

Senior Member
Re: »Ø¸´: PLAN submarines Thread II

exeter said:
From my point of view, PLAN manufacturing and deployement of type 041 Qing class newest diesel (probably in future AIP) boat , is simplest Russian view on deployement of their Kilo type submarines.As per many Western literature and forums, Kilo submarines are for littoral use , Russian submarine doctrine especially in Pacific fleet, their means for use is "protective cover of strategic atomic boats in their patrol areas".....By PLAN perspective they probably canot reach Hawai and US west coast , and efficiently provide cover for type 092 and 094 , so they build larger boar, with efficeint range , and time to remain in designated patrol area of SSBNs.
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The soryu class submarine from japan has similar size to this submarine, and japan doesnt have nuclear submarines. I dont think that providing cover for nuclear subs is this new sub mission.
 
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exeter

Just Hatched
Registered Member
»Ø¸´: PLAN submarines Thread II

Well I said this is only my point of view. When you look at Japan and China strategy in use of sub forces, you will sea that is complete difference.Japan still using (but easily transforming) in US spy strategy of lay still and listen the communications, Soryu is open ocean with enough range to cover Japan , and Okhotsk offcourse.China in other hand have littoral coast defence , sub for this is Ming and Kilo , open ocean convoys and blocade is Song (we are talking about diesel-electric boats) , nad protecting cover for SSBN remain only one , and that is new Qing.By the way Rusiian strategie for providnig cover of SSBN patrol area with diesel , provide very good sucess , still today.US Navy will never admit this or denied offcourse.
 
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Riverman

New Member
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

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antiterror13

Brigadier
Re: »Ø¸´: PLAN submarines Thread II

exeter said:
Well I said this is only my point of view. When you look at Japan and China strategy in use of sub forces, you will sea that is complete difference.Japan still using (but easily transforming) in US spy strategy of lay still and listen the communications, Soryu is open ocean with enough range to cover Japan , and Okhotsk offcourse.China in other hand have littoral coast defence , sub for this is Ming and Kilo , open ocean convoys and blocade is Song (we are talking about diesel-electric boats) , nad protecting cover for SSBN remain only one , and that is new Qing.By the way Rusiian strategie for providnig cover of SSBN patrol area with diesel , provide very good sucess , still today.US Navy will never admit this or denied offcourse.
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Remember China also have 091 and 093 nuclear subs for providing cover to SSBN, nuclear subs is much more effective for that task
 
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schlieffen

New Member
Re: »Ø¸´: PLAN submarines Thread II

antiterror13------I think it would be more cost-effective to use AIP-equipped diesel subs to escort SSBNs, in the case of Chinese operations.

The main patrolling area, presumably South China Sea, is too close to major sea/air bases of potential hostile forces, and is less secure than the fortified sea of Barents and Okhotsk. All passages to open seas are controlled or closely monitored by western forces, so IMO it’s too risky to travel far and fast for Chinese SSBNs. They better stay in low speed silent running throughout their entire patrol and stay close to Chinese coasts where they can be well supported by other PLAN assets. SSNs will be an overkill in these circumstances, as high speed is redundant. AIP-equipped SSKs could offer enough underwater endurance to escort SSBNs on their voyage back/forth the patrol areas, and even accompany the boomers for much of their patrol if rotated for refreshments. In addition, while SCS is more prone to surface/air threats, it does have one advantage: the extensive continental shelf, shallow water and VERY busy coastal traffic/ fishery activities make it very unsuitable for foreign SSNs to operate, especially close to Chinese shore. On the other hand it is precisely the environment where advanced SSKs could maximise their effectiveness. The SSN-774s might be more comfortable in littoral water but there’s only a few of them, and the backbone of USN SSN fleet is still the legacy cold war boats.

Technical issues aside, I don’t think the political atmosphere would allow the USN subs to use the same close tailing tactic employed during the cold war, especially if Chinese boomers operate very close to home water. High tempo nuclear submarine operations literally off the Chinese shore--doesn’t sound like a good idea. If anything went wrong the diplomatic consequences would be very, very messy.

Above all, the number of SSNs in PLAN inventory is just too small and is unlike to boost in the near future. If you use them for boomer escort, few if any could be left for offensive missions.
 
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Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: »Ø¸´: PLAN submarines Thread II

schlieffen said:
The SSN-774s might be more comfortable in littoral water but there’s only a few of them, and the backbone of USN SSN fleet will be legacy cold war boats in the foreseeable future.
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There are already
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built and commissioned. Over the next 4-5 years, another eight will be commissioned.

There are also 3 Sea Wolf class submarines.

By 2016 that means there will be closing in on 20 of the higher tech boats available for such duties.

In the 10 years following that, another 16 will be built.

If the US Navy feels it is important enough, they already have enough Virginia class and Sea Wolf boats (11 right now) to use tagging the new PLAN boomers when they come out into deeper waters. My guess is that that type of thing has already been occurring in the China Sea.
 
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montyp165

Senior Member
Re: PLAN submarines Thread II

At the very least the PLAN needs more SSNs for offensive and counterforce operations, even if it takes a while to make them on par technologically with the best US SSNs.
 
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