PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

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Jeff Head

Jeff Head

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Blackstone said:
Is it me or does it seem like India's first domestic CV, Vikrant, was on a noticeably faster pace? Does it mean CV 17 had more problems during production, or is it just a larger carrier and so takes more time?
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Well, Vikrant went through two launches...and the first was purely political trying to show the people that progress was being made when in fact the carrier was far behind schedule.

Ultimatly, early in 2015 they did a normal launch...but that was a six year build for a 40,000 ton carrier.

Now it appears that outfitting progress has languished. Once launched, a 2 year period should have been expected until turnover to the Indian Navy and commission...maybe three. I would have expected a 2018 date. Now they are saying sea trials first in 2018 and 2019, and commissioning after 2020. That means 11+ years from keel laying to commissioning.

That's not a good record.

I expect 001A, CV-17, which was laid down in Feb 2015 is going to launch in 2017, and be commissioned in 2019.

That's a four year, maybe four and a half year period from laying down to commissioning for a 70,000 ton carrier.
 
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M

Mirabo

Junior Member
Registered Member
Some news regarding the island:

It will be installed in two pieces, a forward section and a rear section.

The forward half of the island has already been hooked up and will likely be installed in a couple of days (shown below).

215636mjuqxkk2uxkj0lei.jpg


The rear section of the island has also made its first appearance (top-left corner in the photo below).

215558da7kty2abag1ywxb.jpg


Plus a bonus hi-res picture of the whole vessel.

234714rfco38vmyy83ec7c.jpg


Courtesy of Big Cat (fzgfzy).

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Jeff Head

Jeff Head

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Registered Member
Interesting, we see this high res photo of the carrier showing the ski-jump having been lifted and the entire deck (with the large openings for access into the hull still there0.

234714rfco38vmyy83ec7c.jpg

...and then this photo...which shows the island having been moved on the dock over next to the carrier, preparing for lifting onto the carrier.

001A-Island.jpg
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
Jeff Head said:
That means 11+ years from keel laying to commissioning.

That's not a good record.
Click to expand...
And you can bet they'd rebuke that Liaoning is the undefeated record holder (laid down: 1985; reached China: 2002; launched: 2012) so India's effort not that shabby...but as far as "time spent with actual work done" it's more like:
1985-92 (USSR / Ukraine)
2008-2012 (actual, observable, continuous work performed in China)
....that's almost 12 years (?). If Vikrant ends up taking longer than that, then it's quite embarrassing when you consider the tonnage difference (typically, smaller tonnage = shorter construction cycle). And when we count the "pure local build" as the starting line, if CV-17(?) conduct shakedown cruise first, then Vikrant getting creamed...
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
Jeff Head said:
Interesting, we see this high res photo of the carrier showing the ski-jump having been lifted and the entire deck (with the large openings for access into the hull still there0.

View attachment 29810

...and then this photo...which shows the island having been moved on the dock over next to the carrier, preparing for lifting onto the carrier.

View attachment 29811
Click to expand...
The island module is constructed there, just the shed rolled away. Still, compare with known mockup that's only the lower half. My take is that they're going to lift and install it as such, with the upper bits to be installed afterwards?
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
MwRYum said:
And you can bet they'd rebuke that Liaoning is the undefeated record holder (laid down: 1985; reached China: 2002; launched: 2012) so India's effort not that shabby...but as far as "time spent with actual work done" it's more like:
1985-92 (USSR / Ukraine)

2008-2012 (actual, observable, continuous work performed in China)

....that's almost 12 years (?). If Vikrant ends up taking longer than that, then it's quite embarrassing when you consider the tonnage difference (typically, smaller tonnage = shorter construction cycle). And when we count the "pure local build" as the starting line, if CV-17(?) conduct shakedown cruise first, then Vikrant getting creamed...
Click to expand...
As you say, the actual build time for the Liaoning was a quite different story.

Refit actually began in 2003. Dry dock in 2005. Added zinc chromate undercaot on deck in 2006. eck and hull structure completed in 2008. Rebuild of island in 2009. Sensors and weapons added in 2010-2011. Dock side engine test first week of August 2011. First sea trail August 8, 2011.

See
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So the Chinese were in no hurry. They were clearly meticulously studying the entire vessel as they refurbished it (so they could then build 001A). Eight years from start of refit to sea trails. Then another year and she was commissioned.

The Indians are having far more troubles and some of them have been simply embarrassing.

I believe that ultimtely the Vikrant is going to be a good vessel...but they will not have her commissioned until 2020 or later.

By then I expect there 3rd carrier build will be underway...though how far along we do not know. Thier record does not bode well...but they are openly asking the US for help so this may move them along faster.

I expect at this point that 001A will commission one or two years before Vikrant.

I expect that the Chinese 002 CATOBAR carrier will be complete 3-4 years in advance of the Indians 3rd carrier, which will aslo be CATOBAR.
 
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Intrepid

Intrepid

Major
The Chinese have messured every single metall plate of Varyag before finishing it as Liaoning. And now they use there knowledge to build a second Liaoning in very short time. So we can expect, they understand how to build a carrier.

And whether a carrier weights 40000, 70000 or even 100000 tons, the time to weld the metal plates together should be the same. On a larger ship you can better work in parallel than on a small ship.

002 will be welded together in the same short time than 001A, I guess.
 
D

delft

Brigadier
OT
Jeff Head said:
As you say, the actual build time for the Liaoning was a quite different story.

Refit actually began in 2003. Dry dock in 2005. Added zinc chromate undercaot on deck in 2006. eck and hull structure completed in 2008. Rebuild of island in 2009. Sensors and weapons added in 2010-2011. Dock side engine test first week of August 2011. First sea trail August 8, 2011.

See
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So the Chinese were in no hurry. They were clearly meticulously studying the entire vessel as they refurbished it (so they could then build 001A). Eight years from start of refit to sea trails. Then another year and she was commissioned.

The Indians are having far more troubles and some of them have been simply embarrassing.

I believe that ultimtely the Vikrant is going to be a good vessel...but they will not have her commissioned until 2020 or later.

By then I expect there 3rd carrier build will be underway...though how far along we do not know. Thier record does not bode well...but they are openly asking the US for help so this may move them along faster.

I expect at this point that 001A will commission one or two years before Vikrant.

I expect that the Chinese 002 CATOBAR carrier will be complete 3-4 years in advance of the Indians 3rd carrier, which will aslo be CATOBAR.
Click to expand...
I would be surprised if advise by US engineers will be relevant in the Indian context. These good folks will be quite out of their depth with Indian organizational practises. See how little the Russians in many more years have been able to improve Indian practice wrt Sukhoi aircraft.
 
AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Wow. I'm not sure why India and China are even compared simply on time... except for the obvious petty reasons. Let me guess... If China were working at a faster pace than India, it would be all about shoddy work and short-cuts, right? I recall that story about the US Navy official that went on an exchange program with the Indian Navy. By his description of how their ships were run, I guess it would also say something about how they were designed and built.
 
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