Blackstone
Brigadier
Is it me or does it seem like India's first domestic CV, Vikrant, was on a noticeably faster pace? Does it mean CV 17 had more problems during production, or is it just a larger carrier and so takes more time?
PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)
- Thread starter bd popeye
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Yep, and as I mentioend on page 620, the island appears to be slightly different to CV-16's, especially how it seems to have two "deckhouse" levels; likely one being the bridge and the other pri-fly.
Direct comparisons between Indian and Chinese military programmes are always discouraged, but it should be alright if we only talk about time.
Regarding INS Vikrant... the keel of the ship was laid in February 28, 2009, and the ship was first "launched" in August 2013, however it was launched in an incomplete state (even less complete than CV-17 currently is now) -- it lacked an island, its flight deck overhangs were incomplete, and the entire 1/3 aft of the flight deck was missing from what I remember.... and it was actually in the water before its official launch were it lacked a ski jump as well. It was then "properly" launched in June 2015 where the island was fully installed, with flight deck fully complete etc.
First "launch" 12 August 2013:
INS Vikrant was actually in water even before its "official" launch as well.
"Proper" launch 10 June 2015:
In 001A's case, the keel laying probably occurred in April 2015 given the photos we had, and currently in August 2016, the ski jump is fitted with the flight deck almost fully complete (including flight deck overhangs all present, along with most if not all ciws sponsons as well)... and the island will probably be lifted onto the ship within months, at most... for a launch either very late 2016 or early 2017.
So INS Vikrant took slightly over 6 years from keel laying to being launched with ski jump+flight deck+island all fully present and complete, based on my maths, and 001A will probably be launched late 2016/early 2017 with ski jump+flight deck+island all present (aka about 2 years, maybe a bit less).
Of course, we can't discount that Cochin shipyard did some extra work on Vikrant's internals beyond what is merely visible outside in those extra years they had, so it may be that 001A is less complete internally when it is expected to be launched, compared to INS Vikrant's state in internal completion in June 2015 when it was launched with all structures complete...
But I definitely think that based on what we've seen and what we're seeing, it is very confusing to suggest INS Vikrant's progress was faster than what we are seeing with 001A. If anything, one may even argue that 001A's progress is faster than INS Vikrant... potentially up to three times faster (based on outside visible structures -- we do not know what the state of internal completion of the two ships were), with 001A being a significantly larger vessel than INS Vikrant as well, of course.
Alrighty... I feel like SDF and CDF (or rather, the original sources on Chinese BBS) deserve some more significant citations within the body of these write ups if they're going to directly re-quote information from us like this.
Still, I suppose I should feel grateful at least one writer for Jane's is able to keep up with the latest rumour developments.
China's third aircraft carrier likely to be fitted with catapults
Andrew Tate, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
04 August 2016
This image shows that China's Type 001A carrier will feature a ski-jump section designed for short take-off operations. Source: Via sinodefenceforum.com
A photograph has emerged on Chinese online forums showing that China's land-based aircraft carrier mock-up in Wuhan, Hubei Province, is undergoing modifications.
These are likely to reflect changes between China's first indigenous aircraft carrier, the Type 001A, which is currently being built at Dalian shipyard and the next one to be constructed, which is commonly referred to as the Type 002.
Most significantly the ski-jump section has been removed from the mock-up, reinforcing expectations that China's third carrier will be equipped with catapults.
Construction of China's third carrier is expected to take place at the Jiangnan Changxingdao shipyard near Shanghai. So far there has been no official confirmation of the programme nor visible evidence of the construction, but there has been considerable speculation that production of the initial modules is already in progress.
Satellite imagery of the Huangdicun Airbase, which supports China's J-15 carrier-based aircraft, reveals that construction of the facilities assessed to be catapults commenced in 2015. This is a further indication that future Chinese carriers will have a configuration for catapult-assisted take-off but arrested recovery (CATOBAR) operations.
The two systems being installed at Huangdicun are believed to be steam-powered and electromagnetic catapults. Installation of both suggests that a final decision on which system to adopt may not yet have been taken.
The latest unofficial images of the Type 001A carrier at Dalian show a ski-jump section designed for short take-off operations; similar to that on China's first carrierLiaoning .
Construction of the structure up to the flight deck is largely complete, with the final ski-jump module assembled and ready for installation.
The addition of modules to form the island should follow before the carrier's launch, which at the current rate of progress could take place before the end of 2016, although early 2017 is more likely.
Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options
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Lol.
Still, I suppose I should feel grateful at least one writer for Jane's is able to keep up with the latest rumour developments.
China's third aircraft carrier likely to be fitted with catapults
Andrew Tate, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
04 August 2016
This image shows that China's Type 001A carrier will feature a ski-jump section designed for short take-off operations. Source: Via sinodefenceforum.com
A photograph has emerged on Chinese online forums showing that China's land-based aircraft carrier mock-up in Wuhan, Hubei Province, is undergoing modifications.
These are likely to reflect changes between China's first indigenous aircraft carrier, the Type 001A, which is currently being built at Dalian shipyard and the next one to be constructed, which is commonly referred to as the Type 002.
Most significantly the ski-jump section has been removed from the mock-up, reinforcing expectations that China's third carrier will be equipped with catapults.
Construction of China's third carrier is expected to take place at the Jiangnan Changxingdao shipyard near Shanghai. So far there has been no official confirmation of the programme nor visible evidence of the construction, but there has been considerable speculation that production of the initial modules is already in progress.
Satellite imagery of the Huangdicun Airbase, which supports China's J-15 carrier-based aircraft, reveals that construction of the facilities assessed to be catapults commenced in 2015. This is a further indication that future Chinese carriers will have a configuration for catapult-assisted take-off but arrested recovery (CATOBAR) operations.
The two systems being installed at Huangdicun are believed to be steam-powered and electromagnetic catapults. Installation of both suggests that a final decision on which system to adopt may not yet have been taken.
The latest unofficial images of the Type 001A carrier at Dalian show a ski-jump section designed for short take-off operations; similar to that on China's first carrierLiaoning .
Construction of the structure up to the flight deck is largely complete, with the final ski-jump module assembled and ready for installation.
The addition of modules to form the island should follow before the carrier's launch, which at the current rate of progress could take place before the end of 2016, although early 2017 is more likely.
Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options
=====
Lol.
antiterror13
Brigadier
Just want to add that 001A is 60 to 70,000 tonnes while INS Vikrant is 40,000 tonnes ... so quite different.
Working with the ship in her building dock is cheaper than with her afloat especially wrt heavy lifts. That's the reason for those apertures in the flight deck. But if the dock is needed for say work on Liaoning then she can be floated out and the work can be done elsewhere.
If further carriers are to be built at JN I imagine this dock will be used to build LHD's.
As for comparison with the building of Vikrant work practices are probably too different to make these possible except for the time between keel laying and commissioning. IIRC I read a few weeks ago that Vikrant's commissioning has again be delayed by a few years.
If further carriers are to be built at JN I imagine this dock will be used to build LHD's.
As for comparison with the building of Vikrant work practices are probably too different to make these possible except for the time between keel laying and commissioning. IIRC I read a few weeks ago that Vikrant's commissioning has again be delayed by a few years.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Yup Vikrant won't be commission until 2023 if not latter. Way behind in schedule . I bet CV 17 will be commission first. Vikramaditya is now out of operation undergoing 8 months maintenance . Nothing but trouble. Liaoning never went back for long maintenance after she was commission. I wouldn't even surprise if type 02 will be commission first before Vikrant
NEW DELHI: India thinks of itself as an emerging superpower but does not have a single operational aircraft carrier+ as of now. Its solitary aircraft carrier, INS Vikramaditya+ , will be ready for action only after eight months due its ongoing maintenance refit.
More alarmingly, the 44,570-tonne INS Vikramaditya+ will in all probability have to soldier on alone for the next six-seven years. In its report tabled in Parliament on Tuesday, the CAG said the already long-delayed 40,000-tonne indigenous aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant+ , will be ready only by 2023 as per its constructor Cochin Shipyard+ .
Nothing projects raw combat power like an aircraft carrier prowling on the high seas, ready to unleash its fighter jets and missiles against any adversary. So, whenever the US launches a military strike, or flies the flag against a belligerent China+ in the South China Sea+ , it turns to its 10 Nimitz-class nuclear-powered "super-carriers" deployed around the globe. China, too, visualises aircraft carriers as "symbols of a great nation".
India, however, continues to flounder in first formulating and then executing longterm strategic plans in tune with its geopolitical aspirations. The Navy for long has been demanding three aircraft carriers, one each for the western and eastern sea-boards, with the third being under refit at any given time. But the CAG report, with a detailed critique of the shoddy planning and project execution in INS Vikrant's construction, junks the notion of even a two-carrier force till 2023.
Moreover, the report says the MiG-29K fleet - India ordered 45 fighters from Russia for $2 billion for INS Vikramaditya and INS Vikrant - is "riddled with problems" due to defects in the fighter airframes, RD-33 MK engines and fly-by-wire systems. Consequently, the serviceability or operational availability of MiG-29Ks is pathetic - ranging from just 15.93 per cent to 37.63 per cent.
The Navy, however, is quite confident of getting INS Vikrant, which was first approved in May 1999 with its construction beginning in November 2006, by December 2018. "INS Vikrant will not have its Russian aviation complex (aviation armaments, mobile systems, arresting gear, hydraulic stations and other equipment) and the Barak-8 long-range surface-to-air missile systems by then. But we are planning sea trials from 2018 onwards," said a senior officer.
Even if the carrier is delivered by 2018-2019, it will not be able to operate MiG-29Ks from its deck without the aviation complex, nor be able to effectively protect itself without the Barak-8 missile system+ .
As was first reported by TOI, defence minister Manohar Parrikar has put further orders for the Barak-8 systems designed by DRDO-Israel Aerospace Industries+ , with an over 70-km interception range against incoming enemy aircraft, drones and missile, on hold due to the high costs involved.
The CAG, on its part, says, "There is continuing disagreement over project timelines between the Navy and Cochin Shipyard, with realistic dates for delivery yet to be worked out."
NEW DELHI: India thinks of itself as an emerging superpower but does not have a single operational aircraft carrier+ as of now. Its solitary aircraft carrier, INS Vikramaditya+ , will be ready for action only after eight months due its ongoing maintenance refit.
More alarmingly, the 44,570-tonne INS Vikramaditya+ will in all probability have to soldier on alone for the next six-seven years. In its report tabled in Parliament on Tuesday, the CAG said the already long-delayed 40,000-tonne indigenous aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant+ , will be ready only by 2023 as per its constructor Cochin Shipyard+ .
Nothing projects raw combat power like an aircraft carrier prowling on the high seas, ready to unleash its fighter jets and missiles against any adversary. So, whenever the US launches a military strike, or flies the flag against a belligerent China+ in the South China Sea+ , it turns to its 10 Nimitz-class nuclear-powered "super-carriers" deployed around the globe. China, too, visualises aircraft carriers as "symbols of a great nation".
India, however, continues to flounder in first formulating and then executing longterm strategic plans in tune with its geopolitical aspirations. The Navy for long has been demanding three aircraft carriers, one each for the western and eastern sea-boards, with the third being under refit at any given time. But the CAG report, with a detailed critique of the shoddy planning and project execution in INS Vikrant's construction, junks the notion of even a two-carrier force till 2023.
Moreover, the report says the MiG-29K fleet - India ordered 45 fighters from Russia for $2 billion for INS Vikramaditya and INS Vikrant - is "riddled with problems" due to defects in the fighter airframes, RD-33 MK engines and fly-by-wire systems. Consequently, the serviceability or operational availability of MiG-29Ks is pathetic - ranging from just 15.93 per cent to 37.63 per cent.
The Navy, however, is quite confident of getting INS Vikrant, which was first approved in May 1999 with its construction beginning in November 2006, by December 2018. "INS Vikrant will not have its Russian aviation complex (aviation armaments, mobile systems, arresting gear, hydraulic stations and other equipment) and the Barak-8 long-range surface-to-air missile systems by then. But we are planning sea trials from 2018 onwards," said a senior officer.
Even if the carrier is delivered by 2018-2019, it will not be able to operate MiG-29Ks from its deck without the aviation complex, nor be able to effectively protect itself without the Barak-8 missile system+ .
As was first reported by TOI, defence minister Manohar Parrikar has put further orders for the Barak-8 systems designed by DRDO-Israel Aerospace Industries+ , with an over 70-km interception range against incoming enemy aircraft, drones and missile, on hold due to the high costs involved.
The CAG, on its part, says, "There is continuing disagreement over project timelines between the Navy and Cochin Shipyard, with realistic dates for delivery yet to be worked out."
OT
I looked at some of the 632 comments and was amazed by the "quality".
MwRYum
Major
Dude, we should be the one getting the paycheck instead of those lazy arses who have the nerve to call themselves "journalists". And that's Janes we're talking about...or is it because when comes to China, the net is the best if not the only source for everyone?
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