Both catapults are set independently not in any sort of proximity to the ski jumps, so no.
PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)
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Both catapults are set independently not in any sort of proximity to the ski jumps, so no.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Catapults and ski jumps are mutually exclusive technology as far as naval aviation is concerned.
You need ski jumps when you cannot achieve the necessary speed to attain enough lift to get airborne on a flat deck, OTOH, with a catapult, your plane not only hits the ski jump with enough speed to take off conventionally (thus removing the need for the ski jump), but actually also with more than enough force to break the front undercarriage and potentially crash the plane nose first into the ski jump!
The only way to effectively combine EMALs (cannot be done with steam) and ski jumps is if you significantly decrease the incline and massively extend the length of the ski jump. While that might prove an interesting alternative method to launch objects into orbit, it is completely unfeasible for a carrier design.
You need ski jumps when you cannot achieve the necessary speed to attain enough lift to get airborne on a flat deck, OTOH, with a catapult, your plane not only hits the ski jump with enough speed to take off conventionally (thus removing the need for the ski jump), but actually also with more than enough force to break the front undercarriage and potentially crash the plane nose first into the ski jump!
The only way to effectively combine EMALs (cannot be done with steam) and ski jumps is if you significantly decrease the incline and massively extend the length of the ski jump. While that might prove an interesting alternative method to launch objects into orbit, it is completely unfeasible for a carrier design.
An aircraft leaving a ski ramp can achieve a safe take off at a lower take off speed because the aircraft has a longer time to accelerate after leaving the ramp with an engine failure and that time would be used to achieve the fly away speed. The EM cat can be designed to compensate for engine failure during the start by maintaining acceleration. After such a take off the energy store of the cat would need some more time to recharge before the next aircraft can be launched. The shape of the ski ramp might not need to change at all. The length of the cat would be about halve that of one in a flat deck.
GreenestGDP
Junior Member
My understanding is ... ...
1) EMALS Catapult power output is very flexible and dynamic. --- The EMALS pulling power output can be dynamically and digitally incremented on the fly to any pulling power level at any time interval.
Thus, the EMALS Cat is not constrained by uncontrollable burst of pulling power which can damage the aircraft structural integrity.
Hence, EMALS Catapult can be combined with Ski Ramp.
2) OTOH, the analog Steam Catapult pulling power output is static and it can NOT be incremented on the fly. --- The uncontrollable burst / jolt of Steam Cat pulling power will damage the aircraft structural integrity.
Therefore, Steam Cat can not be combined with Ski Ramp.
3) Learning how to operate Steam Cat does NOT eventually translate into mastery of operating EMALS Cat.
4) If for some reason being a new tech, EMALS Cat is down, then the Ski Ramp as the back up still allow the CV-17 to launch aircraft, albeit with much lighter take-off weight.
All these facts above was explained by the PLA uniform officer ~ Naval expert Ms. YI Li about 1 year ago in early 2015.
Ms. YI Li on CCTV-7
1) EMALS Catapult power output is very flexible and dynamic. --- The EMALS pulling power output can be dynamically and digitally incremented on the fly to any pulling power level at any time interval.
Thus, the EMALS Cat is not constrained by uncontrollable burst of pulling power which can damage the aircraft structural integrity.
Hence, EMALS Catapult can be combined with Ski Ramp.
2) OTOH, the analog Steam Catapult pulling power output is static and it can NOT be incremented on the fly. --- The uncontrollable burst / jolt of Steam Cat pulling power will damage the aircraft structural integrity.
Therefore, Steam Cat can not be combined with Ski Ramp.
3) Learning how to operate Steam Cat does NOT eventually translate into mastery of operating EMALS Cat.
4) If for some reason being a new tech, EMALS Cat is down, then the Ski Ramp as the back up still allow the CV-17 to launch aircraft, albeit with much lighter take-off weight.
All these facts above was explained by the PLA uniform officer ~ Naval expert Ms. YI Li about 1 year ago in early 2015.
Ms. YI Li on CCTV-7
plawolf deserves a standing ovation for his excellent post #5602
GreenestGDP posted;
I've personally witnessed THOUSANDS of catapult launches. And know of zero aircrfat damaged during a catapult launch. Zero. as for EMAL being combined with a ski-ramp. That has been argued to nasuem in previous PLAN CV discussions.
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J-15 arrested landing as posted on sina military channel today.
GreenestGDP posted;
I've personally witnessed THOUSANDS of catapult launches. And know of zero aircrfat damaged during a catapult launch. Zero. as for EMAL being combined with a ski-ramp. That has been argued to nasuem in previous PLAN CV discussions.
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J-15 arrested landing as posted on sina military channel today.
Saw this on CCTV 4 facebook page today with some updates
Displacement 50000-65000 tons
Overall system upgrade compared to Liao Ning
Increased hangar and deck area
Use modular construction with 4 separate modules being constructed simultaneously
GreenestGDP
Junior Member
My understanding is / what I meant is ... ...
1) The way STEAM Cat produce the pulling power is fixed from ( Maximum force -- SUDDEN burst of pulling power ) to ( gradually TAPERING off pulling power ).
2) The way EMALS Cat produce the pulling power is flexible. It can easily be adjusted from ( Gentle force of pulling power ) to ( gradually increase the pulling power to the Maximum force ) ...or any variety of pulling power output in between from start to finish.
The aircraft structure will suffer much bigger stress when it was pulled by the Steam Cat because of the sudden JOLT of force.
The Steam Cat momentum is from Maximum force to Zero.
OTOH, EMAL Cat will be able to gradually pull the airframe in much gentler manner from the Zero force gradually increase to the Maximum force.
This gradual increase of pulling power induce way less airframe stress compare to sudden jolt of pulling power.
In order to compensate the accumulation of SUDDEN stress, one must over engineered the aircraft structure. Therefore, Over--Engineered means the aircraft is heavier, which means less fuel and less weapon load, and also more expensive to build.
===
With the new Gungho ( Innovation--on--Everything ) explicitly mandated by Chairman XI to all PLA ranking officers, and listening to the PLA naval experts explanations, and having the PLAN Super Star scientist MA Wei Ming on hand, ... ...
My conclusion, ... ...
PLAN AC Chief Designer will build the CV-17 on this manner ... ...
1) If the EMALS Cat Battery and Power Supply system are not ready, CV-17 will get 2 modular Ski Ramps. One at the bow and one at the waist.
2) If the EMALS Cat Battery and Power Supply system are ready, CV-17 will get the modular Ski Ramps and EMALS Cat. Although, I have no idea how many will be installed.
3) PLAN will never install and use Steam Cat, because mastering Steam Cat does not help PLAN mastering EMALS Cat.
And, EMALS Cat is a must--have equipment when PLAN deploy UAV launched from carrier.
1) The way STEAM Cat produce the pulling power is fixed from ( Maximum force -- SUDDEN burst of pulling power ) to ( gradually TAPERING off pulling power ).
2) The way EMALS Cat produce the pulling power is flexible. It can easily be adjusted from ( Gentle force of pulling power ) to ( gradually increase the pulling power to the Maximum force ) ...or any variety of pulling power output in between from start to finish.
The aircraft structure will suffer much bigger stress when it was pulled by the Steam Cat because of the sudden JOLT of force.
The Steam Cat momentum is from Maximum force to Zero.
OTOH, EMAL Cat will be able to gradually pull the airframe in much gentler manner from the Zero force gradually increase to the Maximum force.
This gradual increase of pulling power induce way less airframe stress compare to sudden jolt of pulling power.
In order to compensate the accumulation of SUDDEN stress, one must over engineered the aircraft structure. Therefore, Over--Engineered means the aircraft is heavier, which means less fuel and less weapon load, and also more expensive to build.
===
With the new Gungho ( Innovation--on--Everything ) explicitly mandated by Chairman XI to all PLA ranking officers, and listening to the PLA naval experts explanations, and having the PLAN Super Star scientist MA Wei Ming on hand, ... ...
My conclusion, ... ...
PLAN AC Chief Designer will build the CV-17 on this manner ... ...
1) If the EMALS Cat Battery and Power Supply system are not ready, CV-17 will get 2 modular Ski Ramps. One at the bow and one at the waist.
2) If the EMALS Cat Battery and Power Supply system are ready, CV-17 will get the modular Ski Ramps and EMALS Cat. Although, I have no idea how many will be installed.
3) PLAN will never install and use Steam Cat, because mastering Steam Cat does not help PLAN mastering EMALS Cat.
And, EMALS Cat is a must--have equipment when PLAN deploy UAV launched from carrier.
Intrepid
Major
A ski ramp on the waist? Really? Funny idea.
Yea.. many times aircraft miss the arresting wire . So they "Bolter"..It would not be a pretty sight if an "bolter" aircraft hit the ski ramp at 280 km/h; 170 mph..which is the normal landing speed. That nose gear would be in real bad shape.
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