PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

Jeff Head · Oct 22, 2015

Bltizo said:
I think the assumption that EMALS must require nuclear propulsion is blatantly illogical, as IEPS from conventional propulsion could provide sufficient current for EMALS .

Certainly not required.

A lot depends on the state of the nuclear reactor development, and the integrated power development.

Since US carriers are nuclear powered anyway, and since the new reactors are each 200% more efficient than the older ones...it was the only practical course.

Blitzo · Oct 22, 2015

Jeff Head said:
Certainly not required.

A lot depends on the state of the nuclear reactor development, and the integrated power development.

Since US carriers are nuclear powered anyway, and since the new reactors are each 200% more efficient than the older ones...it was the only practical course.

Yes... All USN carriers are nuclear, and as pioneers of EMALS, naturally the USNs nuclear propulsion for its carriers would be tailored to allow EMALS to work.

Unfortunately, this creates a perception in a few circles that nuclear propulsion is inherently required for EMALS, when in reality it all depends on the available power... Which modern IEPS from conventional propulsion could also provide.

JayBird · Oct 22, 2015

jacksprat said:
I'd bet on emals, nce there is no real evidence of their attempting to develop steam cats, buying the HAS Melbourne not withstanding.

There are actually many indications that China already finished developing steam cats for the carrier from all the Chinese articles hinting about it. EMAL gets hot only the last 3 years or so because of the breakthrough by the Team Ma scientist group. But it still not as mature of a technology as CATOBAR yet.

That's why most people still believe the first 002 will still go with CATOBAR. Second 002 could be 50/50 whether China will go with CATOBAR or EMAL according to the big shrimps on Chinese forums.

Richard Santos · Oct 22, 2015

I think either the next two Chinese carrier will both be STOBAR, or they will both be CATOBAR. More likely they will both be STOBAR. I think it is unlikely they will build one STOBAR and one CATOBAR.

The reason is I don't think Liaoning herself will ever really be considered a fully satisfactory, fully operational carrier. She would mostly be used as a trial/training ship, only being used operationally in a pinch. I think the first carrier the Chinese navy would anticipate to be fully satisfactory for her own needs would be the first indigenous carrier. So the Chinese won't build a new carrier just to pair up with the Liaoning.

AeroEngineer · Oct 22, 2015

Jeff Head said:
I expect it will be two STOBARs that are very similar with some improvements to this second.

As Bltizo said, we have predicted this here on this forum for years.

I believe they will go from those two to a CATOBAR design, which will be the most ambitious project of their carrier efforts because they will literally be building that from scratch. Oh, they will have learned from US and other designs and will incorporate some of that into it...but that design will be truly Chinese, and uniquely Chinese.

It will be very interesting to see what it ends up looking like and how it is configured.

Will it be a super carrier with four cats? Or will it be more along the French design with two?

Will the Cats be steam or EM?

Will it be nuclear or conventional?

Will it have three elevators?

Will the island be aft, like the Ford...or more amidships?

As I say, the Chinese will be building that one to their own very unique requirements.

Personally I would not be surprised to see them build two of those aircraft carriers...and if they are being conservative, to see them with steam cats and conventional power.

But they may "leap forward," so to speak, and develop and build EM cats and nuclear power.

We will just have to wait and see.

Jeff, on CJDBY. I have been following that forum for years. It is a established fact that:

1. 001A will be based on the 001 (Liaoning) with small improvements and only one build.
2. 002 will be similar in size to the Kitty Hawk with 3 CATs and 3 elevators. Two 002 will be build.
3. After that 003 CVN similar to that of Nimitz. I am not sure if it will be steam or EMAL for 003, we will have to wait and see.

Blitzo · Oct 23, 2015

Richard Santos said:
I think either the next two Chinese carrier will both be STOBAR, or they will both be CATOBAR. More likely they will both be STOBAR. I think it is unlikely they will build one STOBAR and one CATOBAR.

The reason is I don't think Liaoning herself will ever really be considered a fully satisfactory, fully operational carrier. She would mostly be used as a trial/training ship, only being used operationally in a pinch. I think the first carrier the Chinese navy would anticipate to be fully satisfactory for her own needs would be the first indigenous carrier. So the Chinese won't build a new carrier just to pair up with the Liaoning.

Can't say I agree with that, because despite liaoning's somewhat limited nature due to its design, I think it can still be a fully capable and operational vessel.

I think it is also best to think of the next two carriers as "low risk" vs "higher risk", where the stobar carrier is the lower risk option but offering also lower capability, while the CATOBAR carrier is the higher risk option but offering higher potential capability.
More importantly, the CATOBAR design (002) will also likely be built in higher number and possibly be used as the basis for the eventual nuclear carrier design as well.

In other words, I see the STOBAR 001A as a shorter term, low risk alternative.

lcloo · Oct 23, 2015

Whatever this is, it Is big and it is being built in a wall structure with a white slightly curve roof. May be an aircraft carrier, may be a helicopter carrier? who knows?

Remember the talk some times ago that they were building walls? The giant rectangular black structure does looked like a wall structure.

Check the one on left side of photo, just below middle.

And this is old photo many years ago.

Blitzo · Oct 23, 2015

lcloo said:
Whatever this is, it Is big and it is being built in a wall structure with a white slightly curve roof. May be an aircraft carrier, may be a helicopter carrier? who knows?

Remember the talk some times ago that they were building walls? The giant rectangular black structure does looked like a wall structure.

Check the one on left side of photo, just below middle.

View attachment 20459

Interesting suggestion, but I am doubtful that it's carrier related.

The entire structure with the walls and the curved roof seems like a solid structure rather than any kind of ship.
The structure looks nothing like the hull of even a cargo ship, let alone a carrier.

kroko · Oct 23, 2015

Bltizo said:
Interesting suggestion, but I am doubtful that it's carrier related.

The entire structure with the walls and the curved roof seems like a solid structure rather than any kind of ship.
The structure looks nothing like the hull of even a cargo ship, let alone a carrier.

If you check GE latest photos of that place you will see that it is a place where they are building big ship components. January 2015 they had a ship bow in there. They just covered part ot the place since then.

I dont see it having anything to do with military.

Intrepid · Oct 23, 2015

kroko said:
They just covered part ot the place since then.

To cover a place could be a military action.

PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

Jeff Head

General

Blitzo

Lieutenant General

JayBird

Junior Member

Richard Santos

Captain

AeroEngineer

Junior Member

Blitzo

Lieutenant General

lcloo

Captain

Blitzo

Lieutenant General

kroko

Senior Member

Intrepid

Major