PLAN Aircraft Carrier programme...(Closed)

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Blackstone

Brigadier
Couple of things.. Yes oil does play a significant role however the reason why the US has concentrated efforts in the ME has a lot to do with 9/11 (Al Queda) and our close ties to Israel, Jordan, SA etc. Those things will remain pretty much the same regardless of energy independence of the United States.
US had large footprint in the ME way before 9/11, mainly to secure US and Western energy access. Fracking technology will enable US to be energy independent, and that's a game changer. The US military will still be present in the ME, but probably less so after energy independence.

While the war in Iran and Afghanistan is tapering down, majority of those forces are land forces. Naval assets will for the most part remain relatively the same or just very minor reduction in that region. Military warplanners are very aware of the still constant instability in the ME and the recent crisis in Syria to not make any drastic reduction or move any significant naval or air assets from that region anytime soon or even in the near future. IMHO if POTUS, Pentagon etc moving any air and naval forces away from the ME would be a very idiotic move unless we totally want to wash our hands off that region altogether which is not realistic.
Very doubtful USN will retain same force structure after Iraq and Afghanistan, because we're downsizing our military, while at the same time re-balancing to Asia. There's simply not enough ships, planes, and personnel to do both.

As to forward deploy CSGs you need a relatively large base with the proper facilities, maintenance the whole she bang and until China has such a facility a fwd deployed CSG in the mid east would not practical. I may be wrong but I don't think PLAN has anything like that or even similar to say NSA Bahrain, Doha, Kuwait Navy Base / Camp Patriot, Camp Lemonnier etc. Basically to be have a permanent fwd deployed group you need a rather large port, an accompanying airfiled and prefably a Marine base or two on it or at least relatively close by within a couple hundred miles and obviously a local population that is relatively 'friendly' to your forces.
I did mention 2030, right? Assuming China continues her path to the world's largest economy, and assuming she doesn't provide a whole lot more public goods for the global commons, she will have the money, resource, logistics, and know-how to have multiple CBGs, some of which could be stationed in the South China Sea.

Of course with all that being said with the amount of economic dependencies and transactions that China has with Africa it is not unreasonable for them to lease land etc, share naval bases or start constructing a major naval base on that continent sometime in the future but that's all more political maneuvering than actual military.

PLAN base-to-come in the Seychells is only the beginning of more global political and military engagements in the future.
 

escobar

Brigadier
Liaoning carried out its first docking manoeuver at Sanya City's a naval harbor in south China's Hainan Province on Friday morning. The aircraft carrier will carry out relevant experiments and trainings here.

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lcloo

Captain
Liaoning carried out its first docking manoeuver at Sanya City's a naval harbor in south China's Hainan Province on Friday morning. The aircraft carrier will carry out relevant experiments and trainings here.

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The R&R ship #88 is berthing along side CV16, looks like they are preparing to be based in Sanya for a long time. I bet they will be there until the ice melt in North East China next year. Interesting thing will be how many J-15 will be there, either based on Hainan or onboard CV-16.
 

peterAustralia

New Member
Can I ask a general question about aircraft carriers. Is the number of aircraft carried on board limited by deckspace or is it limited by the size of the support services. What I am getting at, is if say more aircraft could be stored on deck, would there be enough support staff and support services to sustain them?

My guess is that it is reasonably balanced, yes they could fit a few more on deck if they had to, but for longer term they would fall behing in all the maintenance tasks
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Can I ask a general question about aircraft carriers. Is the number of aircraft carried on board limited by deckspace or is it limited by the size of the support services. What I am getting at, is if say more aircraft could be stored on deck, would there be enough support staff and support services to sustain them?

My guess is that it is reasonably balanced, yes they could fit a few more on deck if they had to, but for longer term they would fall behing in all the maintenance tasks

I think you just answered your own question there Peter. Maximum density of a Nimitz calss carrier can be close to 100 but that is rarely if ever with the planes embarked. Optimum operational density if about 70-80% of maximum loadout so typically about 75 or so birds spread out between 8 or so squadrons of various types. During crisis Nimitz can and will carry up to 90 for wartime loadout
Yes space is a large part of it. Hanger space as well as deck space. You can't crammed everything on hanger AND deck because then you have no room to maneuver etc not to mention the vehicles, ordnance, supplies, hoses etc that needs to move around on deck.

Even during war time, you do not want more than 50 planes on the flight deck otherwise it will start impacting flight operations not to mention making it EXTREMELY dangerous for everyone! Safety comes first for the crew. Another reason why the Pri Fly is extremely crucial and the air boss and mini boss who runs the place MUST be on top of their game!
 
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joshuatree

Captain
I also don’t think China will ever “forward deploy” a carrier strike group like USS George Washington CVN-73, unless on a war footing, by deployment I mean having a carrier deployed at any one time rotated in and out like in Gulf of Aden operations, for the last 5 years China has had 3 warships permanently deployed there but they are not forward deployed they rotate in and out on a permanent basis this is the likely deployment a Chinese carrier strike group will make along with an amphibious ready group, we can be sure China will have a carrier deployed at all times because otherwise the carrier air wings experience and training will fall to zero pretty fast if they are not doing carrier air wing training, having three carriers means they will need to keep one operational to maintain the skills to operate all three

Although forward deploying a CSG could be one way of countering the first island chain containment strategy.


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Anyone know what that ship in the foreground is?
 

xiabonan

Junior Member
That ship is 893 Zu Chongzhi. It's an experimental ship that acts as a testbed for new radar and weapon systems.

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Here's her sister ships the 891 Bi Sheng and 892 Hua Luogeng.

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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Liaoning carried out its first docking manoeuver at Sanya City's a naval harbor in south China's Hainan Province on Friday morning. The aircraft carrier will carry out relevant experiments and trainings here.
Well, she did not depart and sail with anything like a full air wing.

No aircraft on deck.

My guess is that she has no more than 4 aircraft on her and probably the same three we have seen in the past, and all stored easily in the hanger.

I still hold out hopes that she has six. But nothing is on deck at all.
 

delft

Brigadier
There can be no difficulty in flying aircraft to her as they become available.
They're now checking the shore facilities necessary and then can increase training at lower light levels, at night and with more aircraft.

I presume her companions have been training with her in all those other naval evolutions people have been writing about on this thread but were never mentioned by PLAN. They can now also involve ships from the South Sea fleet.
 
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