Pakistan considering to buy either Eurofighter or Rafale
- Thread starter crazyinsane105
- Start date
Diving Falcon
Junior Member
Well is there a German (or Pakistani) government source available to all of us to confirm/deny these reports; and unless someone posts either the Janes article or proper German sources then the news is ambigious.
Regarding the U-214 and Eurofighter news, it is highly premature; I believe that the Armed Forces will not seriously consider these before 2009. And when they do start considering them after 2009 new options would be available; and of course prospects would have changed.
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maglomanic
Junior Member
Ger_mark,
You got some problems dude with the way you are conducting your argument. I showed you the link which says Eurofighter was covered by Schmidt-Debré accord which basically says that final decision to sell the armament is with the party that has the deal. Instead of posting a rebutal that would deny that you just said
"It says that Germany can block the sale and even trials with the product."
So point it mate.Please!?!
Next, you have problem with Pakistani/indian news sources. Do you really think German newspaper will be so excited as to print out details of UAV sale to Pakistan. Why do you expect such a contract to be exclusivly "debated" and "printed" for your benefit??
Now back on the topic. I have no such illusion that Pakistan will go for Eurofighter. Pakistan will be much better off dealing with China than to go a for products by europeans who obviously cannot even protect their own trade interests and would rather buy JSF than their own fighter even if they have to beg US for it's blue prints (and ofcourse get rebuffed by US). Eurofighter consortium is gonna be in huge trouble by JSF thats all i am gonna say. If USA decides to kill prospects of Eurofighter's future sales it can do it using JSF.
You got some problems dude with the way you are conducting your argument. I showed you the link which says Eurofighter was covered by Schmidt-Debré accord which basically says that final decision to sell the armament is with the party that has the deal. Instead of posting a rebutal that would deny that you just said
"It says that Germany can block the sale and even trials with the product."
So point it mate.Please!?!
Next, you have problem with Pakistani/indian news sources. Do you really think German newspaper will be so excited as to print out details of UAV sale to Pakistan. Why do you expect such a contract to be exclusivly "debated" and "printed" for your benefit??
Now back on the topic. I have no such illusion that Pakistan will go for Eurofighter. Pakistan will be much better off dealing with China than to go a for products by europeans who obviously cannot even protect their own trade interests and would rather buy JSF than their own fighter even if they have to beg US for it's blue prints (and ofcourse get rebuffed by US). Eurofighter consortium is gonna be in huge trouble by JSF thats all i am gonna say. If USA decides to kill prospects of Eurofighter's future sales it can do it using JSF.
Diving Falcon
Junior Member
Purchase of EF-2000 would most likely be done to counter the Su-30MKI and IAF MRCA; then why spend like 4bn USD on 25-30 fighters when you can spend that much money on 100 high-end Chinese aircraft capable of posing a similar threat to Su-30MKI and MRCA?
Due to financial and political reasons we can safely assume that the vast majority of PAF's fleet by 2020 will be new Chinese aircraft; JF-17, J-10 and possibly even J-11B. Unless the Europeans scrap JSF and go for a total of 1000+ EF-2000s, Rafales and/or Gripens; or Saudi Arabia financed a expensive PAF-European fighter deal, or if China bought a massive number of EF-2000, Rafale or Gripen...PAF isn't going to think about any European fighter. I would tell you the same thing about German submarines, but they're not as costly as Eurofighters.
Due to financial and political reasons we can safely assume that the vast majority of PAF's fleet by 2020 will be new Chinese aircraft; JF-17, J-10 and possibly even J-11B. Unless the Europeans scrap JSF and go for a total of 1000+ EF-2000s, Rafales and/or Gripens; or Saudi Arabia financed a expensive PAF-European fighter deal, or if China bought a massive number of EF-2000, Rafale or Gripen...PAF isn't going to think about any European fighter. I would tell you the same thing about German submarines, but they're not as costly as Eurofighters.
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A simple google search brought this result.
July 27, 2003 Sunday
Germany had a restricted military equipment export policy. The delivery of the parts of radar system purchased by Pakistan from his country in 1970s had been suspended after the military takeover here. His government had now decided to take up the issue of resumption of supplies with the Pakistan government after the visit of President Gen Pervez Musharraf.
He said that the western nations did not perceive military takeover in any part of the world positively. German functionaries, too, had reservations about having direct contacts with Pakistan after the military takeover.
I did not find any resumption of Mil Exports to pakistan news....
July 27, 2003 Sunday
Germany had a restricted military equipment export policy. The delivery of the parts of radar system purchased by Pakistan from his country in 1970s had been suspended after the military takeover here. His government had now decided to take up the issue of resumption of supplies with the Pakistan government after the visit of President Gen Pervez Musharraf.
He said that the western nations did not perceive military takeover in any part of the world positively. German functionaries, too, had reservations about having direct contacts with Pakistan after the military takeover.
I did not find any resumption of Mil Exports to pakistan news....
ger_mark
Junior Member
When the newly elected red-green government refused authorization for the Tiger helicopter to take part in flight demonstrations in Turkey in December 1998, it became clear that Berlin would no longer give carte blanche for exports of jointly produced systems.maglomanic said:
Yes, they would print it and say we shouldnt export there
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what was that ? Eurofighter rather ruins F35 sells then F35 ruins eurofighter Eurofighter, what an idiotic statement :nono:
Every German defence export has to be approved by the parlament, so there must be any news, the onlything you have are sites wich look like they were made by a six year old or sites wich only sources are "pakistani media".
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Diving Falcon
Junior Member
Ger_Mark, Janes said two UAVs have been sold, unless you can post the article or a CURRENT/UPDATED German source REFUSING/CONFIRMING the news; then the entire affair is ambigious.
maglomanic
Junior Member
ger_mark said:
Because tiger chopper wasn't covered by the afromentioned accord!!! Eurofighter and Tornado are covered by the accord. Now are you telling me Gemran govt will break it's commitment to it's partners like this?? Whatever party it is blue-yellow or red-green, if your govt agreed to an accord and a product is out there under that accord then rest in peace...forever.
how do you like me now??
Maybe you missed it. watch Tv again
. Please.Oh, and going by your logic where is the proof of your statement, since you so conveinently discard any news item from "third world country", why are we supposed to beleive you, just because you said it WITHOUT any proof/link/newsitem. So next time if you have a theory/propoganda to peddle please provide proof to be taken more seriously.
Now let me explain the whole anatomy of who got ruined cause of what and who can really ruin whom.
First off europeans have to decide what they want to do. Even the consortium member Britain went for JSF and are also looking at Rafale for carrier duty if i am not wrong. Maybe they are too apprehensive of Germany's red-blue/ purple-yellow political parties that they were not totally sure about the success of eurofighter (some call it cold war relic).
Again if i am not wrong the single centralized body delegated with coducting the sales of Typhoon is all over Turkey convincing em to pull out of JSF. Now these guys have a lot of work to do thanks to red-green-blue party which cancelled Tiger chopper deal. Do you think Turkey would like to be played like it again?? Or maybe they will tell Gremany to go play with someone else..lol
Typhoon has already failed to get contract in singapore even though it performed superably. The reason singapore govt gave is huge hint for the kind of "political complexities" and accords that could hinder the delivery of product. (Hint Hint)
Now back to my point, If US decides it really want to kill Eurofighter (and i ll be sad if that happens), they can pretty much bring turkey, Norway and Britain back by bending to their demands. The ball is in their court. It's not that Eurofighter is the first choice for these countries ( Very Ironic for european countries who would go across atlantic to buy their aircraft!!!! )
I agree, so you were expecting a more mature interface for those websites?? So if any website has a better interface (more colorful i guess...all that mention of red-green-blue party..lol), that means the source is correct???
On the other hand you have given some of the best sources around.. Ohh you didn't give any :rofl: .
P.S Diving Falcon gave you source from Janes. Now please don't say that your green-yellow-purple party thinks otherwise...that too without giving any sources or links...
Diving Falcon
Junior Member
Yea but how could you go wrong about finalizing and signing a deal? Its likely that JDW has some named official or source in the article; we're not talking about a country's interest in a weapon...we're talking about a final deal.tphuang said: