Pakistan considering to buy either Eurofighter or Rafale

ger_mark

ger_mark

Junior Member
I've shown you evidence that the Eurofighter is for export...please provide
evidence that Germany will block it's sale to Pakistan
Click to expand...

Go and write to the German State Television and ask for the video of last years parlament debate on "weapons embargo against China"
Both Merkel and Schröder are talking there
 
D

Deleted member 675

Guest
ger_mark said:
Go and write to the German State Television and ask for the video of last years parlament debate on "weapons embargo against China"
Both Merkel and Schröder are talking there
Click to expand...

Mark, if you haven't noticed Pakistan is not China. Let us not get off-topic!

But more importantly I am still waiting for you to tell me whether or not there needs to be a consensus between the 4 for one member to sell its own aircraft to another country - as in the case of Saudi Arabia. And to be honest I would like to see evidence of it, not conjecture.
 
tphuang

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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geez, I don't know what the obsession is over whether or not Pakistan can buy Eurofighter. If Ger_mark said he watched it on the news that Schroeder and Merkel said typhoon will not be sold to Pakistan, he most likely did. Typhoon probably would not be available for the forseeable future. Let's not forget, EADS is trying to sell this to India, which is looking for a much larger order. If it sells this to Pakistan, it would probably destroy all hope of securing the Indian deal.
 
D

Deleted member 675

Guest
tphuang said:
geez, I don't know what the obsession is over whether or not Pakistan can buy Eurofighter.
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Well Mark has implied that Germany (or any other member) can veto another selling its own planes to someone else. So, as I said, I would like him to clarify his position and/or provide some evidence.
 
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maglomanic

Junior Member
Provisions on exports are a compromise between advocates of a liberal export policy - namely Great Britain and France - and those countries that have traditionally held a more restrictive stance - in particular Germany. For the three most important arms producing and exporting countries, the Framework Agreement is all the more important since it replaces de facto the so-called Schmidt-Debré accord that had governed Franco-German cooperative programs ever since the early 1970s. (British-German projects, in particular Tornado and Eurofighter, have been managed under the same principles). The central element of the Schmidt-Debré accord was a tacit agreement that allowed the country holding the export contract to take the final decision. In practice, this means that Germany (as the country with the more restrictive export policy) abstained from its veto right on French (or British) authorizations to export jointly produced systems. During the Cold War, Germany accepted this ‘gentlemen’s agreement’ not only because of the latter’s commercial benefits, but also because of its own political weakness vis-à-vis the two major European powers. German unification put an end to this political imbalance and shattered the basis of the Schmidt-Debré agreement. When the newly elected red-green government refused authorization for the Tiger helicopter to take part in flight demonstrations in Turkey in December 1998, it became clear that Berlin would no longer give carte blanche for exports of jointly produced systems.

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Now the question is, if they are still adhereing to that accord which initially covered Eurofighter as mentioned in above source.

P.S: I don't think Pakistan will buy such an expensive toy with so much European strings attached to it.
 
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FreeAsia2000

Junior Member
maglomanic said:
Provisions on exports are a compromise between advocates of a liberal export policy - namely Great Britain and France - and those countries that have traditionally held a more restrictive stance - in particular Germany. For the three most important arms producing and exporting countries, the Framework Agreement is all the more important since it replaces de facto the so-called Schmidt-Debré accord that had governed Franco-German cooperative programs ever since the early 1970s. (British-German projects, in particular Tornado and Eurofighter, have been managed under the same principles). The central element of the Schmidt-Debré accord was a tacit agreement that allowed the country holding the export contract to take the final decision. In practice, this means that Germany (as the country with the more restrictive export policy) abstained from its veto right on French (or British) authorizations to export jointly produced systems. During the Cold War, Germany accepted this ‘gentlemen’s agreement’ not only because of the latter’s commercial benefits, but also because of its own political weakness vis-à-vis the two major European powers. German unification put an end to this political imbalance and shattered the basis of the Schmidt-Debré agreement. When the newly elected red-green government refused authorization for the Tiger helicopter to take part in flight demonstrations in Turkey in December 1998, it became clear that Berlin would no longer give carte blanche for exports of jointly produced systems.

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Now the question is, if they are still adhereing to that accord which initially covered Eurofighter as mentioned in above source.

P.S: I don't think Pakistan will buy such an expensive toy with so much European strings attached to it.
Click to expand...

maglomaniac good catch !

i think pakistan might consider it but really they're only going to need
it for the next 5 years or so after which Pakistan is going to be in a
much stronger position vis a vis J-10, JF-17.
 
M

Mate

New Member
This is strange. I am confused. How is UK going to sell EuroFighter without the concent of other European partners? AFIK, its been offered to India too and the way newspaper report it as if its a British project. LOL. Us non British Europeans have nothing to do with it . :roll:

Ger_Mark,

You have idea if Germany has export laws against South Asia. IMO, India is an exception in German laws ( for example they sold HDW boats to India. But they are unwilling to sell 1500 hp engine to India).
 
D

Deleted member 675

Guest
Mate said:
This is strange. I am confused. How is UK going to sell EuroFighter without the concent of other European partners?
Click to expand...

No, the question is how Germany or anyone else is going to stop Britain selling its own batch of Typhoons to another country, as it is proposing to do with the Saudi deal.

Sheesh, is there a case of collective myopia going around the forum? :p
 
M

Mate

New Member
;) Better than un collective hypermetrophia... j/k

Well , I need to see the a precent. I know Britain sells to Pakistan, What about Germany? Isn't the project in scope of Eurofighter Jagdflugzeug GmbH registered in Germany? NATO Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency (NETMA) is the agency which acts as the selling agency? When did Britain take over this co-operative function?
 
ger_mark

ger_mark

Junior Member
FreeAsia2000 said:
Provisions on exports are a compromise between advocates of a liberal export policy - namely Great Britain and France - and those countries that have traditionally held a more restrictive stance - in particular Germany. For the three most important arms producing and exporting countries, the Framework Agreement is all the more important since it replaces de facto the so-called Schmidt-Debré accord that had governed Franco-German cooperative programs ever since the early 1970s. (British-German projects, in particular Tornado and Eurofighter, have been managed under the same principles). The central element of the Schmidt-Debré accord was a tacit agreement that allowed the country holding the export contract to take the final decision. In practice, this means that Germany (as the country with the more restrictive export policy) abstained from its veto right on French (or British) authorizations to export jointly produced systems. During the Cold War, Germany accepted this ‘gentlemen’s agreement’ not only because of the latter’s commercial benefits, but also because of its own political weakness vis-à-vis the two major European powers. German unification put an end to this political imbalance and shattered the basis of the Schmidt-Debré agreement. When the newly elected red-green government refused authorization for the Tiger helicopter to take part in flight demonstrations in Turkey in December 1998, it became clear that Berlin would no longer give carte blanche for exports of jointly produced systems.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



Now the question is, if they are still adhereing to that accord which initially covered Eurofighter as mentioned in above source.

P.S: I don't think Pakistan will buy such an expensive toy with so much European strings attached to it.
Click to expand...

maglomaniac good catch !
Click to expand...


good catch? did you even read it?
It says that Germany can block the sale and even trials with the product.
 
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