Pakistan considering to buy either Eurofighter or Rafale

tphuang · May 30, 2006

ger_mark said:
If you buy american jets you don't even get the source codes for the computer systems, not even if youre a nato partner

i hopeGermany will not aquire Batch 3 Typhoons and invest the money in other Systems, so turkey could take these(or Saudi Arabia) since they are going to be equipped as fighter-bombers and the rest of the EF fleet will get updated to trance3 standard anyway

I'm not too familiar on the German requirement of typhoons, but isn't that a little low in numbers? Let's see, so I'm guessing the typhoons are used to replace some of the migs from the East Germans, F-4s + some early tornados. Maybe you can shed some light on this matter?

ger_mark · May 30, 2006

The 180 EF's are going to replace 110 F4's and 100 Tornados (EF in Fighter/Bomber configuration). The MIG's were sold to poland for 1€ perplane some years ago.We should not aquire Fighter/Bomber EF's and better use the money to buy more UCAV's wich will replace the rest of the Tornados anyway.

PakTopGun · May 31, 2006

isthvan said:
Well I may be wrong but you can’t buy F-16 spare parts, missiles, radar equipment etc. at your local store…
You may smuggle some spares, maybe even few engines but you can’t keep entire F-16 fleet operational only whit black market purchases…
I understand that Pakistan currently buys only equipment that is used in several countries but even that don’t guarantee constant flow of needed spare parts…
I know that they will have no problems whit UH-1 spare parts but large F-16 fleet is quite difficult to maintain without US spares deliveries…
As for EF let’s agree to disagree…

I disagree, the PAF had been under sanctions for quite some time and its personnel have become quite proficient at maintaining, rebuilding and servicing aircraft in its inventory. Also, Pakistan has learned much from the Chinese in the concept of reverse engineering. The fact that the PAF is going ahead with the F-16 acquisitions is reason enough to believe that they feel confident they can handle this plane with or without importing spares to maintain them in the future. Most if not all equipment in PAF inventory have to a degree been mastered from a technical standpoint.the Pakistani armed forces through a series of tough and turbulent situations has come out quite ingenious in quickly adapting and mastering new technology. As far as financial constraints, they are not as bad as your making them out to be... They only look bad if you make a comparison with Pakistans neighboor which is almost 3 times its size and has a population more than 8 times larger, For Pakistan's requirements and maintainance of credible minimal deterrence, its funds are quite sufficient to handle new future acquisitions which will churn it into a potent force in the years to come:coffee:

isthvan · May 31, 2006

PakTopGun said:
I disagree, the PAF had been under sanctions for quite some time and its personnel have become quite proficient at maintaining, rebuilding and servicing aircraft in its inventory. Also, Pakistan has learned much from the Chinese in the concept of reverse engineering. The fact that the PAF is going ahead with the F-16 acquisitions is reason enough to believe that they feel confident they can handle this plane with or without importing spares to maintain them in the future. Most if not all equipment in PAF inventory have to a degree been mastered from a technical standpoint.the Pakistani armed forces through a series of tough and turbulent situations has come out quite ingenious in quickly adapting and mastering new technology. As far as financial constraints, they are not as bad as your making them out to be... They only look bad if you make a comparison with Pakistans neighboor which is almost 3 times its size and has a population more than 8 times larger, For Pakistan's requirements and maintainance of credible minimal deterrence, its funds are quite sufficient to handle new future acquisitions which will churn it into a potent force in the years to come:coffee:

Guys I’m not trying to underestimated Pakistani achievements and ingenuity in servicing and maintaining there’s F-16 fleet under the sanctions. They and Iran have shoved that they can maintain and use US fighters to certain degree without US help.

But you must admit that no matter how ingenious you are there are certain spare parts you joust can’t build locally… Pakistan can’t reverse engineer radar parts, engines or weapon systems… China has much better aerospace industry and they faced great deal of problems whit engine and radar manufacturing… These systems will have to be procured at black market and while that possibility can’t be neglected there joust isn’t big amount of US spare parts on black markets (since US usually don’t have habit of selling large amounts of spare parts whit there’s weapon systems); and while you can maintain certain amount of your equipment that way I doubt that you can maintain fleet of 75-100 fighters whit spares from black market…

I have never said that Pakistan won’t have potent military force in next few years; I actually admire Pakistani ability to counter richer and bigger neighbor’s military modernization…
Thrust me I don’t have any reason to underestimate any country in region; I joust tend to have realistic view at things…
So we might to agree to disagree and stop this debate…

FreeAsia2000 · May 31, 2006

isthvan said:
Guys I’m not trying to underestimated Pakistani achievements and ingenuity in servicing and maintaining there’s F-16 fleet under the sanctions. They and Iran have shoved that they can maintain and use US fighters to certain degree without US help.

But you must admit that no matter how ingenious you are there are certain spare parts you joust can’t build locally… Pakistan can’t reverse engineer radar parts, engines or weapon systems… China has much better aerospace industry and they faced great deal of problems whit engine and radar manufacturing… These systems will have to be procured at black market and while that possibility can’t be neglected there joust isn’t big amount of US spare parts on black markets (since US usually don’t have habit of selling large amounts of spare parts whit there’s weapon systems); and while you can maintain certain amount of your equipment that way I doubt that you can maintain fleet of 75-100 fighters whit spares from black market…

I have never said that Pakistan won’t have potent military force in next few years; I actually admire Pakistani ability to counter richer and bigger neighbor’s military modernization…
Thrust me I don’t have any reason to underestimate any country in region; I joust tend to have realistic view at things…
So we might to agree to disagree and stop this debate…

It's ok we're not arguing with you. It's just that with Pakistan as well as
certain other countries the procurement process involves lot of politics
and tactical bargaining/negotiating so Pakistan puts out a lot of smoke
in order to confuse other parties until it finally decides to buy.

If you have any friends with relatives in the Pakistani military you'll know
that the military in pakistan are unlike the vast majority of pakistani's are
very good at keeping quiet about their real intentions.

So thus the Typhoon thing is more than likely a smokscreen as I'm
sure that the PAF is well aware of the debates in the UK papers.

Pakistan considering to buy either Eurofighter or Rafale

tphuang

Lieutenant General

ger_mark

Junior Member

PakTopGun

New Member

isthvan

Tailgunner

FreeAsia2000

Junior Member