Pakistan considering to buy either Eurofighter or Rafale

by saying ef2000 would come close to f22 i did not mean a fight against it

the ef was designed to beat flanker series and the raptor was designed to beat everything
In a fight against lets say... J10 both would have very similar performance in bvr fight, maneuvrebility ect, F-22 radar advantage is being balanced out by the ef's IRST and Meteor missiles (at least until a similar long range missile becomes available to the F-22).

I think it high time that Pakistan bought aircraft from other sources such as Europe/France. It would help maintain a balance in the region as well as allow the PAF to follow a more diverse course of procurement in the future should the US consider putting sanctions on it again(and if history is any queue- it might just happen again!) Also, it goes well with the Armed forces motto of maintaining credible minimal deterrence. So I think its not unrealistic to see Pakistan acquiring just enough for 2-4 squadrons (bw 35-65 aircraft) representing its advanced fleet, while delegating the F-10, F-16 and F-17 for other roles.. The large procurements of arms(especially by the Air Force) being made by India in recent years as well as in the near future, has forced Pakistan unwittingly into the arm's race. And the PAF will have to acquire more advanced weopons to maintain a credible balance of power in the region.

Aerodriver said:

These simulations concluded that Eurofighter has a win rating of 82% (100% equals always win, 0% equals always lose, 50% equals parity) against the target aircraft. A more typical way to present this data is as a combat exchange ratio, for the Typhoon this equals 4.5:1. In other words statistically one Eurofighter would be lost for every 4.5 Su-35 fighters shot down. This compares extremely favourably to the other aircraft (see also the BVR Combat Rating table); F-16C Falcon (0.3:1), F-15C Eagle (0.8:1), F-18C Hornet (0.3:1), F-18+ (0.4:1, NB this is not the current F-18E/F which is apparently a downgraded version of the F-18+ used in the studies) and Dassault Rafale (1:1).

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This studies are completly faulse, because they were made by DERA during the Singapore deal for future aircraft competition. And we now at the end EF-2000 was kicked out of the competition.

Several US specialized magazines and studies said that Rafale is superior to all in service US a/c except F-22 of course and could be equal or superior to F-35. The EF-2000 is considered as a "super F-16".

PakTopGun said:

So I think its not unrealistic to see Pakistan acquiring just enough for 2-4 squadrons (bw 35-65 aircraft) representing its advanced fleet, while delegating the F-10, F-16 and F-17 for other roles.

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Sorry to say, but the PAF will be busy with inducting and integrating JF-17, J-10 and F-16 while the government will be busy paying for them until 2019. According to extremely credible sources on PakDef - "Armed Forces Development Plan-2019" does not include any twin-engine fighters. Any purchase of a heavy-engine fighter will never take place unless the Pakistani economy can take the heavy pressure of maintaining them! The most logical thing we can imagine is that another procurement plan will be drafted for issues after 2019 - which for all we know would include the purchase of a fighter which has to take on new-generation aircraft like PAK-FA, MCA, etc.

However from now to 2019 the PAF will induct a maximum of 250-300 new fighter jets - among them JF-17, J-10 and F-16; in my opinion - based on the official results given by official sources - such a fleet would maintain the balance well, until the IAF procures a fighter in the class or near class of F-35. The J-10 supposedly outmanuvers the Su-30MKK, its avionics will eventually be on par to that of the Su-30MKI; and best of all, J-10's weapon systems will be among the most lethal in Asia. The PAF is likely to buy up to 75-100 J-10s - backed up by 150 JF-17s and up to 75 F-16C/D Block-52s is enough to ensure that the numerical ratio stays 1:2 and the quality ratio stays 1:1.

Twix101 said:

This studies are completly faulse, because they were made by DERA during the Singapore deal for future aircraft competition. And we now at the end EF-2000 was kicked out of the competition.

Several US specialized magazines and studies said that Rafale is superior to all in service US a/c except F-22 of course and could be equal or superior to F-35. The EF-2000 is considered as a "super F-16".

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I believe Typhoon lost out the S'pore deal due mainly to delivery schedule. And Rafale lost due to lack of AESA.
And of course F-15SG is very much only a stop gap for the SAF.

ger_mark said:

ROFL

Well they don't just post claims or on Pakistani and Chinese stuff
Some weeks ago when the Barracuda UCAV was sighted the guy who tooked the picture said that the engine sounds like Alpha-Jet and Janes simply said it has SNECMA/Turboméca Larzac 04-C20 engine. EADS doesn't even confirm the existance of the aircraft.
I'm not saying everything they write was wrong but it's just a news source.

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So finally Janes is wrong once again since Barracuda is powered by JT 15D-5C (MTU & P&W)

:nana: :nana:

Of course PAF can handle it. The PAF with the exception of the heavily embargoed 90's (leading it to inadvertantly get involved with the Fc-1/F-17 program) has been growing at a phenomenal rate since its inception in 1947 and at intervals where its politics/economy was in an even 'worse' position. While the country is finally on the right path economically(a necessity if its armed forces plan on acquiring new equipment and modernising), I also agree that we'll have to wait and see till around 2009 at which time the air force will consider 'acquiring' a new aircraft once it has comfortably inducted the F-17's, new F-16's and possibly even the F-10. Pakistani air force personnel have flown in various aircrafts all around the world belonging to various manufacturers and as such are quite proficient in acquiring the necessary know-how and infrastructure in operating and maintaining them which is why I dont really believe this is going to be a big issue. Nonetheless, it is an exciting time for the PAF and all Pakistan air force buffs around the world(even in Germany!).:nana:

I consider this news item to be very unconvincing and advise you guys to take it with whole bucket of salt,peppers and other dressings



"If it went ahead, Bertolone said, the proposal will allow the Turkish Air Force to gain operational independence -- the ability to autonomously maintain its fighter fleet. It is our opinion that Turkey's local industry is well-developed, and prepared for ambitious hi-tech tasks, Bertolone said. Turkey qualifies to emerge as the operational support center for the Typhoon.

He said if Turkey became the group's fifth partner, it would be tasked with promoting the fighter in countries with which it has friendly relations, like Pakistan and the United Arab Emirates. The Eurofighter consortium believes that Turkey, with its advanced aviation industry, fulfils all the requirements to become a partner of the group, Bertolone said. Partnership in the group, he said, would mean having access to source codes and other critical technology.
"

Came across this piece on PakDef posted by HKhan.

Article just implies, states and proves three things;

1) IF Turkey joins the Eurofighter group, it has to promote the fighter to countries it has good ties to.

2) The Eurofighter group has interests in tapping into the Pakistani arms market.

3) Of all the factors that have or would prevent the PAF from acquiring Eurofighter before 2015, the main factor is cost/price.

In my opinion, a fighter in the class of Eurofighter and Rafale would be procured by the PAF no sooner than 2017; deliveries of such a fighter to PAF would take place during the 2020s, at the earliest. However, according to well informed sources on PakDef (namely H Khan), the PAF will NOT procure ANY twin-engine fighter before 2019. After that, its anybody's guess.

While the prospects of the Eurofighter sale to Pakistan thru 'friendly' Turkey reamains 'interesting' at most at this point in time.. Turkey would first have to accept such a deal from a Europe which has yet to give it full recognition in the European Union. Also the United States has been a long term supporter of Turkey's incorporation into the EU and got the nation to join NATO several decades ago, furthermore it has helped to develop its arms industry. Turkey already licence produces the F-16 of various models and could theoretically easily adapt to the conversion of producing or final production of the F-35. As far as Pakistan is concerned.. regardless of aircraft (Eurofighter or F-35)It would also need a considerable amount of enticement to get involved in such a program especially when it considers the issue of serviceability and spare parts. For Turkey would have to ensure availability of spare sparts or at least give the basic ability to Pakistan to service such an aircraft domestically; a decision which would require the final ok from the US or the EU. PAF have become quite adamant at being able to incorporate only those aircraft it can maintain and service domestically without extensive foreign support given the history of PAF in times of crisis. Such a decision would be weighed heavily by the PAF before acquiring such an expensive aircraft. Though the deal would raise the standards of the PAF considerably nonetheless:coffee: