I was referring to "ofone"...
I am very familiar with 132 and the technical advancement it made recently in manufacturing J-10, So I am confident what "ofone" said is plain BS...
*New J-10 Thread*
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I am very familiar with 132 and the technical advancement it made recently in manufacturing J-10, So I am confident what "ofone" said is plain BS...
J-10 winning more awards
From February 27th of 2007, the J-10 project was awarded China's 2006's national science/technology advancement specialty award. This is the second project to get this award after the 921 project (manned space flight).
"J-10 only cost 10 million dollar"......He may say the J-7 ?So cheap is impossible for j-10 .
Of course ,on chinese forum ,many people post the words like "J-10 is not advanced than F-16A/B and even IDF can win the J-10" ,and our technology is so poor that it is impossible to produce advanced weapons ,most of them come from TaiWan ,and some guys are the Internet Spies .
Of course ,on chinese forum ,many people post the words like "J-10 is not advanced than F-16A/B and even IDF can win the J-10" ,and our technology is so poor that it is impossible to produce advanced weapons ,most of them come from TaiWan ,and some guys are the Internet Spies .
TPHuang, what is your overall judgment of J-10? If the quality of workmanship in China is not as good as its Western counterpart, and yet, J-10 is an advanced achievement of China, what does this fact say about the quality of J-10 (sorry to repeat this question), in comparison to F-16?
中共中央、国务院隆重举行国家科学技术奖励大会
胡锦涛出席大会并为获奖代表颁奖
温家宝讲话 曾庆红出席 李长春主持
新华网北京２月２７日电（记者孙承斌、李斌）中共中央、国务院２７日上午在北京隆重举行国家科学技术奖励大会。党和国家领导人胡锦涛、温家宝、曾庆红、李长春出席大会并为获奖代表颁奖。温家宝代表党中央、国务院在大会上讲话。李长春主持大会。
人民大会堂大礼堂里灯火璀璨，鲜花如簇，气氛隆重而热烈。上午１０时整，大会在雄壮的国歌声中开始。中共中央总书记、国家主席、中央军委主席胡锦涛首先向获得２００６年度国家最高科学技术奖的中国科学院院士、中国科学院遗传发育所研究员李振声颁发奖励证书，并同他热情握手，表示祝贺。在热烈的掌声中，胡锦涛等党和国家领导人向获得国家科学技术进步奖特等奖的“歼十飞机工程”项目代表和获得国家自然科学奖、国家技术发明奖以及其他国家科学技术进步奖的代表颁奖。
中共中央政治局常委、国务院总理温家宝代表党中央、国务院在大会上讲话。
中共中央政治局常委李长春主持大会。
国务委员陈至立在会上宣读了《国务院关于２００６年度国家科学技术奖励的决定》。
李振声代表全体获奖人员发言。
会前，胡锦涛等党和国家领导人会见了２００６年度国家科学技术奖励获奖代表。
会上，颁布了２００６年度国家科学技术奖励获奖人选和项目。２００６年度国家自然科学奖授奖项目２９项，其中一等奖２项，二等奖２７项；国家技术发明奖授奖项目５６项，其中一等奖１项，二等奖５５项；国家科学技术进步奖授奖项目２４１项，其中特等奖１项，一等奖２０项，二等奖２２０项；授予２名外籍科学家中华人民共和国国际科学技术合作奖。
Please post a translation for this article. Not all members read Chinese.
bd popeye super moderator
胡锦涛出席大会并为获奖代表颁奖
温家宝讲话 曾庆红出席 李长春主持
新华网北京２月２７日电（记者孙承斌、李斌）中共中央、国务院２７日上午在北京隆重举行国家科学技术奖励大会。党和国家领导人胡锦涛、温家宝、曾庆红、李长春出席大会并为获奖代表颁奖。温家宝代表党中央、国务院在大会上讲话。李长春主持大会。
人民大会堂大礼堂里灯火璀璨，鲜花如簇，气氛隆重而热烈。上午１０时整，大会在雄壮的国歌声中开始。中共中央总书记、国家主席、中央军委主席胡锦涛首先向获得２００６年度国家最高科学技术奖的中国科学院院士、中国科学院遗传发育所研究员李振声颁发奖励证书，并同他热情握手，表示祝贺。在热烈的掌声中，胡锦涛等党和国家领导人向获得国家科学技术进步奖特等奖的“歼十飞机工程”项目代表和获得国家自然科学奖、国家技术发明奖以及其他国家科学技术进步奖的代表颁奖。
中共中央政治局常委、国务院总理温家宝代表党中央、国务院在大会上讲话。
中共中央政治局常委李长春主持大会。
国务委员陈至立在会上宣读了《国务院关于２００６年度国家科学技术奖励的决定》。
李振声代表全体获奖人员发言。
会前，胡锦涛等党和国家领导人会见了２００６年度国家科学技术奖励获奖代表。
会上，颁布了２００６年度国家科学技术奖励获奖人选和项目。２００６年度国家自然科学奖授奖项目２９项，其中一等奖２项，二等奖２７项；国家技术发明奖授奖项目５６项，其中一等奖１项，二等奖５５项；国家科学技术进步奖授奖项目２４１项，其中特等奖１项，一等奖２０项，二等奖２２０项；授予２名外籍科学家中华人民共和国国际科学技术合作奖。
Please post a translation for this article. Not all members read Chinese.
bd popeye super moderator
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- I think the workmanship on the J-10 looks good. Well, good enough. I mean, what's the point of having better workmanship, the point is, your quality of workmanship should meet the required standards and that's all. No point in comparing one to the other.
- Design is important. I think the J-10 has certain advantages over the F-16. It appears to have a better instantaneous turn rate and higher AoA thanks to canards and lower wing loading, It probably is more maneuverable at low speeds, higher altitudes, and at supersonic speeds, while even with the F-16 at medium altitudes and medium speeds. Both can roll very fast, so any difference may not matter so much. F-16 probably has better sustained turn rates, and slightly better visibility.
- I think the avionics is right about the Block 30/40 or pre updated Block 50 level. Updated Block 50/52, 52+ still better.
- F-16 still has superior weapons integration and air to surface capability.
- I think the F-16 has a more enduring airframe (8 to 12,000 flight hours) but J-10 has about 4 to 6000 flight hours. But that is probably PLAAF's own requirement.
- Don't laugh at the IDF. That plane is very maneuverable, and even F-16 will get into serious trouble if you want to play the turn game with it. If J-10 pilot underestimates IDF, the IDF can bite back and hard.
- Big fighters like Su-27 are IMHO, overrated. While aerodynamic design and sheer engine power can afford them with great turn rates, they're not as agile as small light fighters, which excel in that hard to quantify quality called Transient Performance. The key to John Boyd's EM (energy maneuvering) theories is TP. It means that a plane must be very capable of changing its energy and turn state so fast it can produce a flight solution to an opponent regardless what position or energy state the aircraft is. To put it simply, its a quality of being NIMBLE. It is for this reason why Aggressors on F-5s and A-4 Skyhawks are able to tag F-15s and F-14s, and in the PLAAF's case, even J-7s against J-11s. How the J-10 can react against similar light fighters is what I like to see. That's why one cannot underestimate another small fighter, any small fighter.
- Design is important. I think the J-10 has certain advantages over the F-16. It appears to have a better instantaneous turn rate and higher AoA thanks to canards and lower wing loading, It probably is more maneuverable at low speeds, higher altitudes, and at supersonic speeds, while even with the F-16 at medium altitudes and medium speeds. Both can roll very fast, so any difference may not matter so much. F-16 probably has better sustained turn rates, and slightly better visibility.
- I think the avionics is right about the Block 30/40 or pre updated Block 50 level. Updated Block 50/52, 52+ still better.
- F-16 still has superior weapons integration and air to surface capability.
- I think the F-16 has a more enduring airframe (8 to 12,000 flight hours) but J-10 has about 4 to 6000 flight hours. But that is probably PLAAF's own requirement.
- Don't laugh at the IDF. That plane is very maneuverable, and even F-16 will get into serious trouble if you want to play the turn game with it. If J-10 pilot underestimates IDF, the IDF can bite back and hard.
- Big fighters like Su-27 are IMHO, overrated. While aerodynamic design and sheer engine power can afford them with great turn rates, they're not as agile as small light fighters, which excel in that hard to quantify quality called Transient Performance. The key to John Boyd's EM (energy maneuvering) theories is TP. It means that a plane must be very capable of changing its energy and turn state so fast it can produce a flight solution to an opponent regardless what position or energy state the aircraft is. To put it simply, its a quality of being NIMBLE. It is for this reason why Aggressors on F-5s and A-4 Skyhawks are able to tag F-15s and F-14s, and in the PLAAF's case, even J-7s against J-11s. How the J-10 can react against similar light fighters is what I like to see. That's why one cannot underestimate another small fighter, any small fighter.
I think I have to say something,You can don't trust me,and you have the rights to think that I am cheating yours.It's doesn't matter.
Then there is some facts in China.
The locomotives in china seems all made by chinese,in fact,45% of techniques in the locomotives come from siemens.And chinese engineer do not master those techniques.Even though the fastest speed of the locomoytives can just reach 300km/h.And most of the westen countrys master those techniques in 1970s.
The bigest airplanes made in China can just hold 90 persons.In this kind of areas,china even cann't compare with Brazil.
In the area of super large scale integration,China can not compare with taiwan and South korea.The latest CPU can just work in 400M/Hz.And its reliability of electromagnetism is not good enough to use in military purpose.
With computer technologys,China can just send three person into airspace.Nearly 40 years before,America have sent there astronaut onto moon.
So, do you know why America do not permit China obtain any military high tech.
Nowadays,the economy of China is developing, and more than half of the export depend on multinational companys,also nearly half of GDP depend on multinational companys.Just in a few area,chinese companys still keep its monopolization,and those companys are non of hightech.
J-10 is that cheap just because the planned economy system in China military area.It's so incredible that America always think the military expenditure in China was underestimated.
I study in PLA Ordnance Engineering college in shijiazhuang.My tutor is an experter in chinese ordnance area.Because of the secrecy low,I can just say those,without any data.
Then there is some facts in China.
The locomotives in china seems all made by chinese,in fact,45% of techniques in the locomotives come from siemens.And chinese engineer do not master those techniques.Even though the fastest speed of the locomoytives can just reach 300km/h.And most of the westen countrys master those techniques in 1970s.
The bigest airplanes made in China can just hold 90 persons.In this kind of areas,china even cann't compare with Brazil.
In the area of super large scale integration,China can not compare with taiwan and South korea.The latest CPU can just work in 400M/Hz.And its reliability of electromagnetism is not good enough to use in military purpose.
With computer technologys,China can just send three person into airspace.Nearly 40 years before,America have sent there astronaut onto moon.
So, do you know why America do not permit China obtain any military high tech.
Nowadays,the economy of China is developing, and more than half of the export depend on multinational companys,also nearly half of GDP depend on multinational companys.Just in a few area,chinese companys still keep its monopolization,and those companys are non of hightech.
J-10 is that cheap just because the planned economy system in China military area.It's so incredible that America always think the military expenditure in China was underestimated.
I study in PLA Ordnance Engineering college in shijiazhuang.My tutor is an experter in chinese ordnance area.Because of the secrecy low,I can just say those,without any data.
FC-1 is rubbish,but is better than the old rubbish,because it's totally brand new.
hah,The technology of Boeing and Airbus in 1970s is better than the technology in china now.Airbus will build a factory in tianjin which will assemble airbus A-320.
Assemble,not manufacture!!!!because china can't manufacture any aerobus like A-320.
It seems that you do not know the reality of China a little bite.
看来你并不了解中国,不了解中国的军事工业体制和中国军事工业的水平
Chairmen Mao said :No investigate,No say-so
毛主席曾经教导我们说：没有调查就没有发言权。
goldenpanda
Banned Idiot
Well said there.
Hi crobato. Can you tell me how you came to the conclusion F16 has better sustained turn rate? It seems J10 would have the better lift to drag as well as better thrust to weight, if you go by the lower range weight estimates.
Hi people, I just came from the defencetalk forum. Is there a problem with the "private messages" feature? It says I don't have permissions when I try to jump there.
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