*New J-10 Thread*

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tphuang

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Deino said:
It's definitely one of the older prototypes/pre-serials "1013" and if my memory is correct this picture has been posted - or at least that scene - from a slightly different angle !

Cheers, Deino :D
you know, that's what I thought too, but then the image looked like 1413 when I first looked at it, so I got a little confused.

To Magoonar, ToT has no truth in it. I'm sure J-10 will be exported to pakistan at some point. They are negotiating right now. We will find out when an agreement is reached.
 

Sea Dog

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Is Pakistan the only state being considered as a potential J-10 client? I'm thinking Iran, Syria, and maybe even Egypt might want to have a look at the J-10 for their Air Forces.

BTW, nice picture tphuang. What are the aircraft in the foreground used for?
 

tphuang

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Sea Dog said:
Is Pakistan the only state being considered as a potential J-10 client? I'm thinking Iran, Syria, and maybe even Egypt might want to have a look at the J-10 for their Air Forces.

BTW, nice picture tphuang. What are the aircraft in the foreground used for?
I know this is going to sound weird, but I really don't think China dares to export something like J-10 to Iran and Syria. This is just based on the possible American/Israeli protests. And also, it has fear that America would get the plane if it ever decides to change their current anti-American regimes. And you can add North Korea and Venezuela to that list too.
 

maglomanic

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tphuang said:
I know this is going to sound weird, but I really don't think China dares to export something like J-10 to Iran and Syria.


too scared!! aren't we? ;)

I dont think thats an issue. Issue however is if they can afford it or really want it.
 

pshamim

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tphuang said:
I know this is going to sound weird, but I really don't think China dares to export something like J-10 to Iran and Syria. This is just based on the possible American/Israeli protests. And also, it has fear that America would get the plane if it ever decides to change their current anti-American regimes. And you can add North Korea and Venezuela to that list too.

Venezuela! Russia just signed a deal to supplu 30 SU-30 to venezuela. That seems quite daring on the part of Ruusia.

I do agree with TP in relations to Iran and Syria. That can be not only a direct threat to Israel. Also it will really be an insult to Israel to sell an aircraft which is based on Former LAVI developed by Israel. US may come down very hard on China in defence of Israel.
 

maglomanic

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I would respectfully disagree here. For Israel first and formost China is a big market with immense potential. They would rather engage China and try to make sure they know what these countries will get from China than to boycot China. As for USA coming with a big stick to China and complaining why they r bothering their best friend, i think the first question they would ask is how all of their tech got to China via Israel. They have already flately refused to let Israel integrate their stuff on JSF if i am not wrong. Stiring up trouble like that and including USA in that will just create more complications for Israel.

Before anyone doubts China's ability in making it's own decision for selling high tech weapons to other countries, do consider how North Korea has been able to get Nuke tech and Bm tech. Iran got their BM in turn from N.Korea. The noise in USA has laways been there with people pointing fingers, but for all i know and for all China cares i haven't seen these people doing didly squat in stopping Chinese.

A better approah for Israel will be offering China something in return. More high tech stuff, guarantees. That would business China would be interetsed in.
 

maozedong

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Re: J-10 database: prototypes, pre-serial & serial machines ...

I am not interested in J10 now, I want to know more about j12 and j13,Aney one can discuse more j12,j13? I think j10 already kew by evryfans,and j10will be lost in the next 10 years,It must transfrom to j13 as soon as possble,And china must also finish WS10 engin as soon aspossble.china has a farway to go,I don' understand way china so hard to make advance engin,now chinese airfighter,warship,sub,still have to buy from other countrys.we must go quick.
 

Deino

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Re: J-10 database: prototypes, pre-serial & serial machines ...

maozedong said:
I am not interested in J10 now, I want to know more about j12 and j13,Aney one can discuse more j12,j13? I think j10 already kew by evryfans,and j10will be lost in the next 10 years,It must transfrom to j13 as soon as possble,And china must also finish WS10 engin as soon aspossble.china has a farway to go,I don' understand way china so hard to make advance engin,now chinese airfighter,warship,sub,still have to buy from other countrys.we must go quick.

Then take a look at this tread about the J-xx !!

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/showthread.php?t=43&page=19

Cheers, Deino :)
 

duskylim

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Dear Maozedong:

First let me point out that this is a thread dedicated to the J-10 and not the J-12 or J-13. We should keep to the topic or address it in the proper thread. But since you opened this topic I will continue.

Regarding your desire for China to speed up its weaponry developement. Well, its much easier said than done. Weapons systems, like all modern technology require considerable expertise and skill. I think to a very large extent all of the news and shows about "young geniuses" tend to mislead a lot of people regarding how these things are made.

It may surprise you to learn that the best technical systems (civilian or military) are not made by the young designers. They are made by the "old" men (i.e. designers). And I really mean OLD men. I don't mean the fags who design clothing or watch bands, or the exteriors of cars or stereos. No, I mean mature experienced designers.

For example, you think its easy to design an engine? Lets try a car engine for example. One of the best (if not the best in my opinion) is Nobuhiko Kawamoto of Honda who is almost 80 years old. The former head (and founder) of Honda, Seichiro Honda unlike the Americans, did not want a "manager" to take over his company, he wanted an engineer! And not just any engineer, he wanted and engine man!

He selected Kawamoto himself as his successor. But first he gave him a little "qualification" exam. Backed by the resources of Honda Motorsports, Kawamoto had to prove himself in what is the most demanding of car engine developement environments - Formula 1. Kawamoto made the engines for team Mclaren - the Mclaren-Hondas.

He passed with flying colours - no less than six (6) Formula 1 engine constructors championships under his belt! Thats why he's head of Honda today and thats why they have such great engines. A contemporary of his is the head of Mazda motors engine design, Kenichi Yamamoto - the designer of the RX series of rotary engined sports cars.

Back in the 1960's Yamamoto heard that Felix Wankel had invented a new type of engine with a rotary piston, the so-called triangular epitrochoid. Yamamoto was very excited by it. He appealed to the German gov't and the Ambassador and bought a patent. What he and Mazda got for their money was a KKM lawnmotor motor and a set of plans. He immediately set about copying it.

As he put it "my first engine rattled like a tin can full of rocks, blew great clouds of white smoke and self-destructed in about 30 seconds!". In the course of engine developement he filled Toyo Kogyo's back yard with 6000 blown engines!

Thats that kind of commitment and dedication you need to get experience in all of this. And I guaranttee you that you will make mistakes, - its just that the old guys know what the limits are. Look at the age of the Chief designers of aircraft, ships, cars or even electronics, - case in point - Heard of Marty Cooper - of Motorola? He invented the cellphone back in 1979. And he's still inventing stuff - like the intelligent antenna array!

China destroyed a whole generation of design engineers during the Cultural Revolution. Making a great designer is like growing a great tree, it takes many, many years. You cut them down young and you have to start from scratch.

Hope this helps,

Best Regards

Dusky Lim
 

tphuang

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That's a great point. The American military companies may or may not have the best engineers, but they do have the most experienced engineers and the best technology base by far, so the advantage they have over the other nations is too huge.
 
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