Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is Missing

joshuatree

Captain
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Palau?!?! WTH? Palau is way west of the Phillipines! Initially the report was about 100 miles south of Vietnam then there was the rumor about the ATB but now it appears the ATB is confirmed by the Air Force. The plane did turn around for whatever reason and it was another good hour or so before it lost radar contact.
If I'm piecing everything right the plane went silent about 130 ish etc but military radar was tracking it for another good hour overflying Malaysia (again) heading WSW or so before it 'disappeared'.

It's Pulau Perak, not to be confused with Palau which is east of the Philippines. Just making sure we're not confusing over that because I did for a second. :D

Yeah, this doesn't add up. If Malayisan military radar was tracking for another hour, why no fighter scramble to intercept and have a visual check? Maybe everyone on board already lost consciousness? When the initial reports of the plane missing came out, they said the plane had enough fuel for another 4-5 hours from time of lost contact? So did Malaysian military radar track the plane going down or did it keep going till out of Malaysian military radar range? Cuz that could mean it went out to the Indian Ocean if the plane kept its course and kept flying.

And what about Indonesian civilian and military radars?
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

I heard on the news at lunch that Malaysia has offically said now that they believe they have radar data indicating that the aircraft indeed was way off course sometime after they initally lost contact, and that is why the search pattern was expanded.

I know US Navy brass is upset because, with two destroyers and numerous aircraft now involved, they do not feel that a scientific method is being applied to all of the many differnt searchers as a whole, forming them as an overall team defined search criteria, patterns and responsibilities that every one else is coordinated with...and that as a result a lot of work is overlapping, not very effecient, and now even being waisted because apparently Malaysia had this info for two days before they let others know.

This is really getting mysterious.

If the aircraft indeed flew anywhere near the Malacca Straits, that is SO FAR off course, that the reasons for that get very bad. Was the plane intentiaonally taken off course as some have suggested? If so...by who? Remotely by 3rd party? The crew itself? (That is not without precedent). There are a very limited number of reasons how this could happen without the crew's consent and occur without any notfication whatsoever.

I still think it is most likely that the aircraft went down...but this raises all sorts of disturbing possibilites.
 

chuck731

Banned Idiot
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

True, but what's baffling about the mystery is the plane was at cruising altitude, basically at the safest moment in the air, the computer virtually does most of the work, so what else can the pilot do to cause such a catastrophic descent?:confused:


Take Air France flight 447 for example. This was also an instance of a state of the art modern passenger aircraft mysteriously disappearing while crusing over the ocean, and then taking a week to be found and 2 years to be recovered.

With Air Fance 447 The plane was also cruising. Gradually a few of the pitot tubes iced up. The flight control computer determined this would prevent it from accurately determining the speed and angle of attack of the plane necessary for completely computer controlled flight, and also prevent it from displaying correct information in the cockpit instrumentation. So the flight control computer reverted from normal, full function computer control mode to a standby, pilot override mode. In this mode the plane allows the pilot to do whateve he wanted, sharpened the plane's response of the plane to inputs from the pilot, and blacked out all the data display on cockpit instrumentation which the computer deemed to now be no longer reliable. But the pilots didn't realize this had happened, and was alarmed by sudden change in the plane's handling characteristics, and began to wildly overcompensating with control stick input. So the plane started to gyrate and climbing. The plane began to stall, and the computer stall warning began to buzz. So the pilots put on full power. But now disoriented, and with vital instruments blacked out, the pilot didn't realize the plane is continuing to climb, so he continued to apply nose up in put. This caused the plane to climb more and stall more deeply.

This process continued for several minutes, as the plane lost virtually all its forward speed, adopted a 35 degree nose up atitude, while the engines were on full power, and plane was falling like a stone. During the entire period the experienced, but panicked, pilot didn't do the two critical things every student pilot is taught on day one:

1. Always trust instruments, even if only some are working, over your physical sensation and gut feeling of what the plane is doing. If instrument and you disagree, you are wrong. End of story. The pilot here refuse to believe the stall warning from the computer for over a minute as the plane lost 38000 feet of altitude and pancaked onto the atlantic ocean.

2. Always put the nose down and dive to gain air speed when you have altitude to lose and are in danger of stalling. The pilot continuously held the control stick back, nosing the plane up, precisely the worst thing to do, instead of pushing it forward, nosing the plane down, and solve the problem in about 3 seconds.


Modern passenger aircraft are immensely complicated systems with many different modes of failure, both within the machine or human side of the system, and in the interaction between the two sides.

Just because they are typically so well engineered that they seldomly fail does not mean there nonetheless exist many, many different ways it can fail if it ever fail. So when people ask "how can a modern passenger plane .... unless some dark conspiracy.", you have to laugh. You have no idea how many different ways a passenger plane can .... without the intervention of any nefarious conspiracy.
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Aeroflot Flight 593 the captian's 15 year old son was in the cockpit and disabled the autopilot.
China Airlines Flight 006' There was a Case In which a tired flight crew nearly caused a Air disaster and then worked there way out of it.
 

chuck731

Banned Idiot
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Aeroflot Flight 593 the captian's 15 year old son was in the cockpit and disabled the autopilot.
China Airlines Flight 006' There was a Case In which a tired flight crew nearly caused a Air disaster and then worked there way out of it.


The best case I can think of is of Captain Kohei Asoh of Japan airline.

captain Asoh was a WWII fighter ace and flight instructor, and was immensely experienced with over 10,000 hours as an airline pilot, and has flown the same route in DC-8 from Tokyo to San Francisco route scores of times.

In 1968, in fog, he somehow misinterpreted the display of instrument landing system he used hundreds of times successfully before, and made an otherwise textbook perfect approach and landing at the San Francisco internation airport, 3 miles short of the run way. He set the plane down perfectly in San Francisco bay. So perfectly no one was injured. Although everyone was surprised. The plane landed so smoothly the plane was essentially undamaged, only waterlogged. Japan Airline was able to fish the plane out, repaired it, and flew it for 15 years more on the same route.

He became famous when, during the accident investigation, instead of taking the fifth or trying to blame the crash on faulty instrument or bad weather conditions, he said, in public hearing, in heavily accended English: "As you Americans say, I (explicative deleted) up". This subsequently became known as the "Asoh defence" in the field of accident investigations.

--------------------------- Moderator's Note ----------------------------

Chuck, does not matter if you're quoting some one else. That language is not allowed on SD
 
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Blackstone

Brigadier
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Palau?!?! WTH? Palau is way west of the Phillipines! Initially the report was about 100 miles south of Vietnam then there was the rumor about the ATB but now it appears the ATB is confirmed by the Air Force. The plane did turn around for whatever reason and it was another good hour or so before it lost radar contact.
If I'm piecing everything right the plane went silent about 130 ish etc but military radar was tracking it for another good hour overflying Malaysia (again) heading WSW or so before it 'disappeared'.

You know damn well, by context, I meant Paulau Perak in the Malacca Strait.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

The best case I can think of is of Captain Kohei Asoh of Japan airline.
.
.
.
He became famous when, during the accident investigation, instead of taking the fifth or trying to blame the crash on faulty instrument or bad weather conditions, he said, in public hearing, in heavily accended English: "As you Americans say, I (explicative deleted) up". This subsequently became known as the "Asoh defence" in the field of accident investigations.

Got to give the man some credit for honesty and brevity.
 
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cn_habs

Junior Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

I heard on the news at lunch that Malaysia has offically said now that they believe they have radar data indicating that the aircraft indeed was way off course sometime after they initally lost contact, and that is why the search pattern was expanded.

I know US Navy brass is upset because, with two destroyers and numerous aircraft now involved, they do not feel that a scientific method is being applied to all of the many differnt searchers as a whole, forming them as an overall team defined search criteria, patterns and responsibilities that every one else is coordinated with...and that as a result a lot of work is overlapping, not very effecient, and now even being waisted because apparently Malaysia had this info for two days before they let others know.

This is really getting mysterious.

If the aircraft indeed flew anywhere near the Malacca Straits, that is SO FAR off course, that the reasons for that get very bad. Was the plane intentiaonally taken off course as some have suggested? If so...by who? Remotely by 3rd party? The crew itself? (That is not without precedent). There are a very limited number of reasons how this could happen without the crew's consent and occur without any notfication whatsoever.

I still think it is most likely that the aircraft went down...but this raises all sorts of disturbing possibilites.

Those incompetent Malaysian officials could have mentioned that detour days ago and took ages to reveal the identity of the 2 Iranians , effectively lowering the chances of finding anyone alive.
 
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Blackstone

Brigadier
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

I heard on the news at lunch that Malaysia has offically said now that they believe they have radar data indicating that the aircraft indeed was way off course sometime after they initally lost contact, and that is why the search pattern was expanded.

I know US Navy brass is upset because, with two destroyers and numerous aircraft now involved, they do not feel that a scientific method is being applied to all of the many differnt searchers as a whole, forming them as an overall team defined search criteria, patterns and responsibilities that every one else is coordinated with...and that as a result a lot of work is overlapping, not very effecient, and now even being waisted because apparently Malaysia had this info for two days before they let others know.

This is really getting mysterious.

If the aircraft indeed flew anywhere near the Malacca Straits, that is SO FAR off course, that the reasons for that get very bad. Was the plane intentiaonally taken off course as some have suggested? If so...by who? Remotely by 3rd party? The crew itself? (That is not without precedent). There are a very limited number of reasons how this could happen without the crew's consent and occur without any notfication whatsoever.

I still think it is most likely that the aircraft went down...but this raises all sorts of disturbing possibilites.

It's also worth noting Malayan AF spotted an unidentified aircraft flying over its main island, and (apparently) didn't scramble fighters to investigate it. Somewhere, a major or colonel is being raked over the coals.
 

chuck731

Banned Idiot
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

It's also worth noting Malayan AF spotted an unidentified aircraft flying over its main island, and (apparently) didn't scramble fighters to investigate it. Somewhere, a major or colonel is being raked over the coals.


They still beat the Swiss Airforce. When Ethiopian Airlines Flight 702 was hijacked and being flown to Geneva this last feburary, the Italian and French airforces scrambled jets to escort the plane to swiss border. At Swiss border they passed the information to the swiss airforce so they can continue to shadow the Ethiopiean plane.

But the Swiss airforce refused, because it was outside normal business hours, and Swiss airforce does not work overtime.

So Swiss F/A-18s sat on the ground and the plane with hijackers who for all that is known could be trying to steer the plane into the Fondue restaurate in downtown Geneva frequented by president of Swiss confederation was left instead to fly unescorted through swiss airspace to land in Geneva airport.
 
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