Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is Missing

delft

Brigadier
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

The sea is very huge compare to the largest debris field. If you don't know where to look, finding it would still take a long time.
If it had been a bomb or if the aircraft had dived into the sea from cruising height the debris field would have been very near the last known position and would have been found by now. So now what?
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

There is a HUGE naval surface operation, and air search going on in the South China Sea between Vietnam and Malaysia in search of the debris fo MH370.

Here are a few of the pictures from my
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that I have put together of the varioius vessels involved:


13049812094_495cfa56a3_z.jpg

Malaysian Navy frigate F25 Kasturi

Great pictures Jeff. As I'm sure you are aware there are lots more vessels searching for the plane. Not necessarily Navy ships but from various Maritime agencies, law enforcement etc. As to the aviation components anywhere from P3Cs from the US, RAAF and dozens of helos and no doubt other types of smaller type crafts looking for the LOC. Heck I wouldn't be surprise if dozens if not hundreds of fishermen are unofficially in the search party as well.

The Gulf of Thailand, SCS is a very busy part of the world. A lot of commercial traffic, tons of fishing especially with the WT being good and clear.

It's amazing with all these asset in place they still cannot locate a single piece of debris or evidence of a crashed jet.
My only logical conclusion is they are not searching in the right area. It's really a BIG mystery. I have my own thoughts but until more concrete evidence are put forth I'll just be contributing to unverified rumors.
 
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chuck731

Banned Idiot
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

If it had been a bomb or if the aircraft had dived into the sea from cruising height the debris field would have been very near the last known position and would have been found by now. So now what?

It is possible for a fatally damaged aircraft - fatal in the sense the aircraft could no longer land intact - to remain partially airworthy for a significant amount of time. Although it is hard to see what sort of damage would leave a plane partially airworthy but totally knock out all communication.
 

bluewater2012

Junior Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Li Jiaxiang , China's minister of Civil Aviation Administration, would not comment whether they suspected an earlier terror warning to Beijing was related to the missing plane.

Taiwan's spy chief confirmed yesterday that the island had received a warning of possible terrorist attacks on the mainland as the annual parliamentary session is held in Beijing.

National Security Bureau head Tsai De-sheng told a legislative committee that the bureau passed on a warning of planned attacks against Beijing airport and the subway system to mainland authorities on March 4. He did not think the intelligence was relevant to the missing plane.
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The Financial Times also quoted the agency’s owner, Benjaporn Krutnait, as saying the Iranian had asked her to book the two men to travel to Europe on March 1, specifying only that she find them cheap tickets.

She initially booked them on two separate flights -- one on Qatar Airways and another on Etihad Airways -- but the tickets expired before she heard again from the Iranian, she said.

He contacted her again on Thursday, and again did not specify a flight.
She rebooked the men on the missing Malaysia Airlines flight, which was also marketed as a China Southern Airlines flight under a codeshare agreement. This time a friend of the Iranian paid in cash, she said. Benjaporn then arranged for a larger agency, Six Stars Travel, to issue the tickets, according to Thai police.
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Taiwan Investigates Threat to Chinese Targets
Taiwanese authorities tightened security at the island's airports as they investigated a threat of terrorist attacks in China, officials said Monday.

Officials of Taiwan's Civil Aeronautics Administration, or CAA, stressed that they couldn't authenticate the threat, which they learned of Tuesday, and said it was most likely unrelated to the disappearance Saturday of a Malaysia Airlines flight to Beijing, the official Central News Agency reported.

Lee Wan-lee, deputy director-general of the CAA, said China Airlines received a phone call Tuesday warning of a bomb attack on the Beijing airport and subway systems.

WEN RUOYU / EPA - FILE
The new threat came three days after a deadly stabbing attack at a railway station March 1 in Kunming, China.
China Airlines said the caller, who claimed to work for a French anti-terrorist organization, spoke first in French but switched to Mandarin because the operator couldn't understand what was being said, the Central News Agency reported.

Taiwan's National Security Bureau passed the information on to Chinese authorities and Taiwanese law enforcement and aviation agencies, it reported. Airport security in Taiwan was heightened, and "extra measures" were taken to ensure the safety of flights to Beijing, it said.

The call came just three days after knife-wielding attackers killed 29 people and injured more than 140 others March 1 at a train station in Kunming, China.
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Terrorist threat made to China Airways passed on to authorities

By Joy Lee ,The China Post
March 11, 2014, 12:09 am TWN

Information regarding a terrorist threat made against Beijing Capital International Airport was passed on to the Civil Aviation Administration of China in Beijing on March 5, China Airlines said yesterday.

Peng Rong-min (彭榮敏), head representative of China Airlines' Beijing Office, said that on March 4, an unknown man made a phone call to China Airlines' main office in Taipei, saying that a terrorist attack will take place in Beijing Capital International Airport.

Peng said that the airlines immediately reported this information to the Aviation Police Bureau.

According to China Airlines, the unknown man claimed to be a member of the East Turkestan Liberation Organization, and that the organization would carry out a bombing at the Beijing Capital International Airport.

China Airlines said that the caller spoke French at the beginning of the phone call, but later switched to Mandarin when the airline employee could not understand French.

The Civil Aeronautics Administration (CAA) of the Ministry of Transportation and Communications (MOTC), which was informed by China Airlines about the phone call, said that the authenticity of the phone call could not be verified.

CAA Vice Director Lee Wan-lee (李萬里) said that the administration also had no information regarding whether other countries had received similar phone calls.

However, Lee said, the CAA still took the matter seriously, and the Aviation Police Bureau will reinforce security checks on flights traveling between Taiwan and Mainland China.

Peng said that passengers will need to undergo two ID inspections by ground agents before boarding flights between Taipei and Beijing.

According to Peng, after the airline passed on the information, the Civil Aviation Administration of China immediately dispatched two officials to a China Airlines office to obtain recordings of the call.

The Aviation Police Bureau said that the police usually receive information regarding aviation security every once in a while, and the bureau always reinforces security to prevent accidents from happening.

According to the bureau, authorities must confirm information they receive, and they are still verifying the authenticity of the call to China Airlines.
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I hope all this is just an coincidence in timing.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

If it had been a bomb or if the aircraft had dived into the sea from cruising height the debris field would have been very near the last known position and would have been found by now. So now what?
Not necessarily.

If a bomb had caused a catastophic breakup of the aircraft at 35,000 ft and traveling over 600 MPH, the debris field would be scattered over many many square...the heavier pieces sinking when they hit.

So, they have to find smaller pieces in that debris field...but as time goes on, the smaller pieces on the surface will continue to spread out.

What they need to find is the locator becon for the black boxes. That will probably lead them to a closer vicinity of the larger submerged pieces of wreckage...if it occured that way.
 

bluewater2012

Junior Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

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The disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is so baffling that veteran aviation investigators say they are struggling to come up with a plausible theory in the absence of any wreckage.

There are only a handful of scenarios that could explain how a usually reliable wide-body jet could seemingly vanish from a clear sky with no distress call and no obvious debris field.

And for every circumstance that would seem to support one theory, another undercuts it.

"It's a thousand-piece puzzle, and we have two pieces and we're trying to make a picture with that," said John Goglia, a former member of the National Transportation Safety Board.

"I'm totally confused, to be honest with you. Nothing makes sense."

Added former NTSB investigator Greg Feith, "You can't rule anything out at this point."

Here are the possibilities investigators are likely looking at as they try to figure out what happened to the Boeing 777 flying 239 people from Malaysia to Beijing across the South China Sea.

Midair mechanical malfunction

A catastrophic event that made the jet come apart at its cruising altitude of 35,000 feet would explain its sudden disappearance. But Feith said that would result in a large debris field in the water, and no one has found one yet.

On the other hand, a mechanical malfunction that brought the plane down intact presumably would have given the pilots time to make a distress call. Even if there were a total electrical power failure, backup systems would have kept the radio running.

Bomb or other explosion

Again, if there were a cataclysm over water — where authorities say the plane lost contact and where the search is concentrated — debris would likely have been spotted already.

"Lots of things inside an airplane float. People float, to some extent," Goglia said.

What if the blast were smaller? Feith can conceive of a situation in which a bomb blew open a hole big enough to cause explosive decompression but didn't damage the structural integrity of the plane. The fuselage would fill with fog, and passengers and crew would pass out within five to 15 seconds.

On autopilot, as the plane would be at that point of the flight, it could fly for hours before crashing on land, perhaps in a thick, remote jungle, Feith said.

Weighing against a bomb is the fact that no one has claimed responsibility, and a plane carrying mostly Malaysian and Chinese passengers would seem to be a less likely terrorist target than an American or European jet.

Pentagon surveillance data also uncovered no sign of a midair explosion.

"It's a thousand-piece puzzle, and we have two pieces."

Hijacking

Increased security has made skyjackings largely a crime of the past. Flight 370 would have had a cockpit door, and procedure would have called for it to have been locked at that point in the trip.

Nevertheless, it's impossible to tell what security measures were actually in place on the flight. We already know that Malaysia didn't bother to check whether the stolen passports used by two passengers were listed in an Interpol database.

If an armed person did manage to get into the cockpit, he or she might prevent the crew from making a distress call. There are discreet codes for a hijacking that pilots can put into the transponder, but because radar coverage in that area was unreliable, it might have gone unnoticed, Feith said.

Typically, hijackers take over a plane to land it somewhere other than its intended destination or to make a demand of some sort — neither of which appears to fit with this case. However, as 9/11 showed, a suicidal hijacker could wrest away control of an aircraft for the purpose of terrorism and intentionally or accidentally crash it into anything.

Pilot error or sabotage

The Boeing 777 should have been on autopilot, but let's say the pilots took it off and then got disoriented or made some other mistake. They still should have had time to make an emergency call once they got into trouble.

In the 1999 crash of EgyptAir Flight 990, authorities believe co-pilot Gamil El Batouty directed the plane into the Atlantic Ocean off Nantucket, Mass., while the pilot desperately tried to regain control.

Experts say that theoretically could have happened with the Malaysia Airlines flight — although there is no evidence to suggest it did.

Bringing an intact plane straight down into the water would explain the lack of a sprawling wreckage field. If there were a struggle in the cockpit, that might be a reason no distress call was made.

First published March 10th 2014, 1:56 pm
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Great pictures Jeff. As I'm sure you are aware there are lots more vessels searching for the plane. Not necessarily Navy ships but from various Maritime agencies, law enforcement etc. As to the aviation components anywhere from P3Cs from the US, RAAF and dozens of helos and no doubt other types of smaller type crafts looking for the LOC. Heck I wouldn't be surprise if dozens if not hundreds of fishermen are unofficially in the search party as well.
Oh yes...in fact, those are only the larger naval vessels from the countries in the area. There are a lot of smaller patrol vessels also in the hunt...along with, as you say, a lot of others that are not necessarily military.

And not to mention the aircraft.

The Gulf of Thailand, SCS is a very busy part of the world. A lot of commercial traffic, tons of fishing especially with the WT being good and clear.

It's amazing with all these asset in place they still cannot locate a single piece of debris or evidence of a crashed jet.
My only logical conclusion is they are not searching in the right area.
Well, the Vietnamese said yesterday that they did see a piece of possible debris from one of their aircraft. And they published a picture of it.


13038015514_6a3e898b3b_z.jpg


But it was at dusk and they could not loiter for any vessel to get close enough to pick it up at the time and they were supposed to come back today and get it...with the time difference, that might be going on now...presuming they can find it again.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Technology of limited use in search for missing 777
By: GREG WALDRONSINGAPORE Source: 17 hours ago
Flight Global
Amid conflicting reports about whether the wreckage of the missing Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200 has been spotted, an expert in airborne search and rescue at sea highlights the challenging task facing the aerial armada searching for the aircraft.

“Search and rescue (SAR) is an incredibly hard mission, made more so when the datum (last location of the aircraft) is unclear,” says a source familiar with maritime patrol activities.

Initially, the airborne search would likely have used an expanding square or spiral search from the starting point, taking into account winds and currents that could "skew" the pattern of debris.

“The vague initial datum makes that area even larger, and time only expands it further,” he says.

The 777, registered 9M-MRO, lost contact with the Subang Air Traffic Control centre at around 01:30 local time on 8 March. Its last reported position was over an area of sea between Malaysia and Vietnam.

A perplexing element of the aircraft’s disappearance is the lack of a distress call or transponder signals. Flightglobal asked Malaysia Airlines about signals from the 777’s Aircraft Communications and Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS), but the carrier declined to comment citing “pending investigations” by Malaysia’s Department of Civil Aviation.

The search, which is entering its third day, involves over 30 aircraft and over 40 ships.

The expert says that the current SAR mission is similar to hunting for anti-shipping mines.

“Radar is a wide area search tool,” he says. “In this type of event, debris would typically be relatively small and floating low to the surface, making it very hard to "paint" with the radar. Additionally, floating debris has no Doppler speed relative to the surrounding ocean, so it would typically be filtered out by radar software intended to de-clutter the radar display. Turning off that feature would create a massive amount of clutter and sporadic returns, not adding much value.”

Electro-optical/infrared (EO/IR) sensors are also of dubious help. This long after the crash – if, indeed, MH370 went down in the sea – most of the debris would be the same temperature of the water, making it undetectable by IR.

And while the South China Sea and Gulf of Thailand are smaller bodies of water than the South Atlantic, where Air France flight AF447 crashed in 2009, it is still a vast area – and presents unique challenges.

A vast fleet of small fishing boats ply the South China Sea and Gulf of Thailand. Most of these do not carry an Automatic Identification System (AIS) transponder, which is common on larger vessels. These fishing boats make for small, slow moving contacts.

“Every one of these will appear as a target that the MPA crew would need to identify and rule out as potential large debris,” says the expert..

“The best sensor for SAR remains the human eye, which is why maritime patrol aircraft are all designed with the ability to fly low and slow to detect survivors or small debris.”
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We need the wreckage before we can investigate the cause. Before we can talk Terrorism, Accident, Suicidal pilots, Aliens Whatever we need evidence.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

I hope all this is just an coincidence in timing.
My understanding is that the two men who flew on the stolen passports booked one-way tickets to Beijing...no return flight.

It sounds very ominous regarding these two and what happened.

Realize, that with Pan AM Flight 103 and the Lockerbie bombing, if that aircraft had been far out to sea, instead of right over Scotland, when the bomb went off, we may have had a very similar circumstance and search for it back then.

As iit was, the aircraft exploded over Lockerbie, and large pieces fell that would have sunk in the ocean, hit the ground and killed 11 people on the ground. 243 passengers and 16 crew were also killed.
 

bluewater2012

Junior Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing


13038015514_6a3e898b3b_z.jpg


But it was at dusk and they could not loiter for any vessel to get close enough to pick it up at the time and they were supposed to come back today and get it...with the time difference, that might be going on now...presuming they can find it again.

Nope. Received news it was some form of life support from an boat.
 
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