Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is Missing

Verum

Junior Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

CNN is claiming that according to Thai police, a Iranian purchased the tickets for the two passengers using stolen passports

WTF CNN!?!?! Those bastards use any chance they could get to smear the "so called rogue countries". There's no conflict between Iran and China or Iran and Malaysia. There's no need for them to do that. CNN never ceases to make people face-palm.
 

chuck731

Banned Idiot
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Modern Airliners are like Modern fighter aircraft, Flown by computers with Pilots having a voting position.
a few years ago I heard about a security adviser in Germany I think who cooked up a computer App that could in theory override the flight controls. If that is possible, all that would theoretically be needed is a Hacker with knowledge of the flight operations Software used by Boeing 777's. That means One does not need to be a state entity to pull it off.

That depends on the design philosophy of the manufacturer. Boeing gives pilot the ultimate power to veto and override. Airbus has multiple sets of flight laws. The pilot can override or veto normal flight laws. But once normal flight law is overruled by the pilot, a second, more relaxed set of laws come into force. This second set only reacts if it judges the pilot is endangering the plane. Once this set comes into force, it would override and veto any pilot input it deem necessary to restore flight safety. There is yet a third set of laws on air buses which can be manually selected, but which automatically come into force if fault is detected in the flight control system. This third set sharpens the aircraft's response to pilot input and gives pilot final say in all control inputs irrespective of safety,

It is this third set that brought down air France 441, which also disappeared without a trace for a while.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

The sort of state level action that would insert malware into the aircraft's fly-by-wire control system as well as communication management system either during manufacturing phase, or during inspection and overhaul. The malware would then enable the state level actor to take control of the aircraft, either in real time remotely, or in a pro-programmed fashion, stopping the transmission of any voice and telemetry, dive the aircraft to low altitude beneath normal surveillance coverage, fly it for a while to obscure it last know position, and then ditch it the sea so the plane remains largely intact while sinking into the sea, thus disappearing while shedding relatively little debris to be recovered at the surface.

You posed the question, that seem like a complete answer.

Most modern commerical passenger aircraft are purely fly by wire, without any direct action mechanical control for backup. So if the flight control computers are suitably programmed, the crew can be completely locked out of all aspects of aircraft management.

That is a little more malign than I was thinking to be honest. My thoughts are towards a mistake or malfunction with Air Defence, either shore based or Naval.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

A Pilot's Perspective that makes better sense above the noise of the media

The comments and replies also give insight into searching for a lost passenger plane.

PILOT: I'm Not Surprised There Was No Mayday Call From The Missing Malaysia Plane
AskThePilot.com
Patrick Smith, AskThePilot.com
Mar. 10, 2014, 9:55 AM 56,286 19




Unless there’s some startling revelation in the coming days, there will be no fast or easy answers about the fate of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370. It could be weeks or even months before we have a solid idea of what happened.

Meanwhile, about the worst thing we can do, tempting as might be, is to begin tossing out conjecture and hunches. Almost always in such cases, the earliest theories turn out to be at best incomplete; at worst totally wrong. Seeing how little is known at the moment, any speculation is really just an open guess.

All we know for sure is that a plane went down with no warning or communication from the crew. That the crash did not happen during takeoff or landing — the phases of flight when most accident occur — somewhat limits the possibilities, but numerous possibilities remain. The culprit could be anything from sabotage to an inflight fire to a catastrophic structural failure of some kind — or, as is so common in airline catastrophes, some combination or compounding of human error and/or mechanical malfunction.

Let me briefly hit some of the points I’ve been seeing and hearing in the media…
1. Lack of a mayday call

No matter an aircraft’s location, the crew is always in contact with both air traffic control and company ground staff. When flying in remote locations, however, this is often a more involved process than simply picking up a microphone and talking. Exactly how it’s done depends on which equipment the plane is fitted with, and which ATC facility you’re working with.

Flying over open ocean, relaying even a simple message can be a multi-step process transmitted through FMS datalink or over high frequency radio. In an emergency, communicating with the ground is secondary to dealing with the problems at hand. As the old adage goes: you aviate, navigate, and communicate — in that order. And so, the fact that no messages or distress signals were sent by the crew is not especially surprising or an indicator of anything specific.
2. The stolen passports

Reportedly, two of flight 370′s passengers were traveling on stolen passports. This has raised eyebrows and incited speculation about a bombing, a possible hijacking attempt or other sabotage. Is this something worth looking at? Absolutely. But so is everything else, from the weather to the cargo manifest to the aircraft’s maintenance history. For what it’s worth, I suspect there are thousands of people jetting around the world on forged or stolen documents, for a variety of shady reasons, but that doesn’t make them terrorist bombers.
3. Pilot experience

A factor? Maybe, but probably not. The captain of the ill-fated flight had logged close to 20,000 flight hours, a substantial total by any standard. The first officer (copilot), on the other hand, had fewer than three thousand hours to his name. Pilots in North America — those like me, at any rate, who come up through the civilian ranks — generally accrue several thousand hours before landing a job with a major airline. We slog our way through the industry in a step-by-step process, building experience along the way.

Thus it would be unheard of to find a Boeing 777 copilot with such a small number of hours. In other areas of the world, the process is often different. Pilots are frequently selected through so-called ab-initio programs, hand-picked by carriers at a young age and trained from the start to fly jetliners. We can debate the perils of this method, but I tend to doubt it’s anything more than a side note to the disaster. Plus, flight hours in and of themselves aren’t necessarily a good measure of a pilot’s skills or performance under pressure. And any pilot, regardless of his or her logbook totals, and regardless of the airline, needs to meet some pretty rigorous training standards before being signed off to fly a 777.
4. The Boeing 777

I see no reason for the news media to keep reminding us about last summer’s Asiana accident in San Francisco, which also involved a 777. That both crashes involved the same aircraft model means little or nothing.
5. Air France redux?

Similarly, there are no good reasons yet to be drawing parallels between the Malaysia crash and that of Air France flight 447 five years ago. Although both crashes involved airplanes going down in mid-flight over the ocean, that’s hardly a meaningful coincidence when you consider the many possible causes. And rare as airline catastrophes are, I’m sorry to say that the annals of civil aviation contain many mishaps that are similar in general profile, but vastly different in the details.

And once in a while, those details remain forever unknown. We will probably learn the full and sad story of Malaysia flight 370, but the possibility exists that we won’t. Much of what happened to Air France 447 still remains shrouded in mystery. Or consider the crash of a South African Airways 747 into the Indian Ocean back in 1987. Investigators believe that a cargo fire was responsible, but officially the disaster remains unsolved, the wreckage having fallen into thousands of feet of water, the bulk it never recovered.

No matter who or what is to blame, we shouldn’t let this latest tragedy overshadow the fact that air travel remains remarkably safe. Worldwide, the trend over the past several years has been one of steady improvement, to the point where last year was the safest in the entire history of commercial aviation. A certain number of accidents, however — and however unfortunate — will always be inevitable. Hopefully that number continues to diminish.

———

Malaysia Airlines was formed in the early 1970s after its predecessor, Malaysia-Singapore Airlines (MSA), split to become Singapore Airlines and Malaysia Airlines. Both carriers are renowned for their outstanding passenger service, and both have excellent safety records. Cabin crews of both airlines wear the iconic, floral pattern “Sarong Kabaya” batik — a adaptation of the traditional Malay kebaya blouse.

Malaysia Airlines’ logo, carried on its tails from the beginning, is an indigenous kite known as the Wau. True story: In 1993 I was in the city of Kota Bahru, a conservative Islamic town in northern Malaysia close to the Thai border, when we saw a group of little kids flying Wau kites. At the time I didn’t realize where the airline’s logo had come from, but I recognized the pattern immediately. It was one of those airline/culture crossover moments that we aerophiles really savor.
More from AskThePilot.com:

The Latest Virgin America Safety Video Will Give You A Headache
My Hometown Airport Is Going Global
Should TSA Agents Carry Guns?

This post originally appeared at AskThePilot.com. Copyright 2014. Follow AskThePilot.com on Twitter.

SEE ALSO: Why The Malaysia Airlines Jet Might Have Disappeared


Calgary Skeptic on Mar 10, 10:38 AM said:
With the exception of Japan, with any flight from somewhere in Asia to somewhere in Asia, it wouldn't surprise me if a few passengers had stolen passports. It's a sketchy continent.
Reply

Astropig on Mar 10, 11:33 AM said:
I wish every member of the media would read the above piece.It is well reasoned and very informative.
Reply

trecer on Mar 10, 1:46 PM said:
@Astropig:
I wonder why airplanes still rely on black boxes to record flight information. The information should be transmitted by satellite to the cloud, thereby circumventing the need to find a black box after crashes.
Reply

GelW on Mar 10, 2:20 PM said:
@trecer:
I wonder what happened to GPS. They can track you with your cellphone to a few yards, they can track ships on the oceans, don't planes have GPS?
Reply

PrivatePilot on Mar 10, 2:41 PM said:
@trecer:
Some of the newer airliners do essentially that - transmit some data back to a central facility where it is recorded for later analysis.
And that data transmission would be nice except for the instance(s) when you lose all outside communication.
An on-board system that is (typically) separately powered provides the capability to record data that is useful.

Thank you Patrick Smith for adding a fair measure of common sense and rational information. Far too much of the main stream media tends to over sensationalize anything to do with an unfortunate disaster as this. But then again they are more interested in first to print rather than accuracy and legitimacy of what they report.
Reply

Dee E on Mar 10, 5:24 PM said:
@GelW:
Yes they all have GPSs. Since they aren't getting the signal, it's likely the wreckage is in deep enough water to prevent it.
Reply

Sigmund on Mar 10, 5:38 PM said:
@PrivatePilot:
Yes, Air France 447 sent several maintenance signals to Airbus HQ right before disappearing, indicating problems in pitot tubes. Also in AF 447 the pilots did not communicate with the air control during the 2 or 3 minutes it took to crash. I guess pilots are more concerned about trying to fix things instead of talking.
Reply

DavidS on Mar 10, 5:42 PM said:
@Dee E:
They do have GPS transponders, but the one aboard this aircraft stopped transmitting data very abruptly, suggesting either immediate, catastrophic damage or that it was deliberately switched off from the flight deck.

Don't forget that there is still no evidence that the aircraft crashed.
Reply

DavidS on Mar 10, 5:46 PM said:
@DavidS:
* or a systemic failure of all primary and backup electrical systems, which would also seem very unlikely.
Reply

Romias on Mar 10, 5:48 PM said:
@GelW:
GPS in a plane (or your phone) know where YOU are. Nothing more.
If you want to track the one with the GPS, the GPS should communicate its possition to you in some way (Internet, radio, etc). So, to track someone/something is not just required to have a GPS... also a communication device. If you are not able to comunicate your possition, you keep it for yourself... and in this case... deep in the water. :(
Reply

Euro2cent on Mar 10, 5:54 PM said:
@GelW:
> don't planes have GPS?

GPS satellite signals are received, and they allow the vehicle's device to know where it is.

The tracking is performed by GPS devices that also send out messages, usually via cell-phone radios.

Coverage anywhere would require communication back to a satellite (not GPS's job).
Reply

Sterling on Mar 10, 11:51 AM said:
I think it is a reasonable speculation that the crew did not have time to communicate. If I am about to ditch a plane with a bunch of people on board, I would have told someone, if at all possible.
Reply

pro-gnostic on Mar 10, 1:50 PM said:
My speculation is that someone was stupid, incompetent and/or greedy enough to provoke another avoidable accident. Yet, when one looks at a documentary such as TWA Flight 800 we know we can not trust "official information" and that we'll probably be fed some safe-in-ignorance-story. For, notice how no story on the weather or most other particulars of this flight has been revealed. This will make it easier to create a story with less holes in it.

Either way, it is unreasonable to have so little real-time information about a flight when the airplane automatically communicates directly with ground, besides the process initiated by crew described above.

All this does is reveal the face-saving culture of the flight operators. Since, from my experience, life is seen as cheaper in Asia than most everywhere else I'd not put beyond corporate interests eliminating competition.

Terrorism makes little sense, for there are no claims and the flight was between Islamic nations. Still, again, incompetence and stupidity have no limits.

Finally, we can envision divine intervention (by ET, meteorite, etc) reminding us all of the pollution we belch out when flying jets anywhere. Anyone not flying is a better person.
Reply

As usual, the Patrick Smith summary... on Mar 10, 2:57 PM said:
….is the one to wait for after one of these aviation incidents. Nice article.
Reply

Wright Wingnutt on Mar 10, 5:23 PM said:
A well reasoned article, but it misses the point completely. The news media is no longer in the business of news. They're in the entertainment industry. All they give a shit about is ratings
Reply

Roger C. on Mar 10, 5:29 PM said:
Of course we had to have the arrogant Westerners make the comments that their pilots have more experience flying planes than other countries. Like American planes don't crash too, which, quite a few have. Furthermore, Malaysian Air's planes aren't falling out of the sky every week. I'm sure they have less crashes than American airlines.

Also, is making pilots get ridiculous amounts of training, at great cost, really making a difference. Maybe to Western bureaucrats, it does, but in other countries, maybe they're more concerned with actually training ENOUGH pilots, than making them slog through hours of flight time that doesn't really make them better.

Sad.
Reply

LOL on Mar 10, 6:48 PM said:
@Roger C.:
That wasn't an arrogant comment. It was a comparison used to point out the fact that the pilots were experienced.

Weird rant and did you end by saying that flying more doesn't make you better? lol
Reply

anas on Mar 10, 5:51 PM said:
I would also add that the Asiana crash was a clear case of pilot error. That crash does not dent the 777's record.
Reply

asdest on Mar 10, 6:41 PM said:
stop saying malaysia has superb quality service like singapore air, its a terrible lie! MH is a bad airline with a nice airport.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

WTF CNN!?!?! Those bastards use any chance they could get to smear the "so called rogue countries". There's no conflict between Iran and China or Iran and Malaysia. There's no need for them to do that. CNN never ceases to make people face-palm.

just because he is Iranian don't mean he has anything to do with the Iranian government. They just said A Iranian man. They never said anything about allegiance only nationality.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

I feel miffed that the media continue to tie the fake passport holders to the disappearance of the jet.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

The media are the media, they are looking for headlines. The passports is a detail that they can build up, in hopes that if it is terrorist then that will be the smoking gun that will make there network. If it goes bust then oh well.
 

richardparker07

New Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Another technology to join rescue operations ,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
is a Submarine Support and Rescue Vessel (SSRV) that is operated by the Singapore Navy

Lets pray for the on board passengers and let’s see how this MV Swift fasten the Search operations

1-image.jpg


2-image.jpg
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Another technology to join rescue operations ,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
is a Submarine Support and Rescue Vessel (SSRV) that is operated by the Singapore Navy

Lets pray for the on board passengers and let’s see how this MV Swift fasten the Search operations
Yes, I showed that picture of the Singapore Rescue tender and its submersible earlier today when showing all of the major naval vessels committed. It is the 9th picture down...

HERE IN THIS POST

At this point, sadly, if they find any underwater wreckage at all, it will be a recovery operation and not a rescue operation.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Search now focuses Straits of Malacca. Goodness, like a cannonball run. Maybe, someone missed Phi Phi Island.
 
Top