Fourth Taiwan Strait Crisis

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Abominable

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siegecrossbow said:
I wish it was never brought up as an option. True, only Hu Xijin brought up the shootdown option, but the Eastern Combat Theater saber rattling about "burying enemies" didn't exactly help clarify the situation, did it? When the enemies they intend to bury turn out to be yellow croakers instead, people are rightfully disappointed.

I am of the opinion that had they kept the threat vague until Pelosi landed, things would be no where as bad as it is now. In my opinion the patrol/live fire blockade training is a reasonable response.
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Give them time, that's all I'm saying. We'll know what the full response will in the next few days. If it wasn't for that one singular tweet I'd be happy with everything said and done so far.

I agree that Chinese diplomacy needs to be improved. The PR mistakes made after Galwan I thought was just down to Chinese not understanding Indian mentality. Turns out it is a much bigger issue with the diplomatic corps.
 
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Kaeshmiri

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MrCrazyBoyRavi said:
That’s my main point too. How hard is it for lets say China to invest billions of $ to bribe people, prop up dissent or lets say help poorest people in Taiwan to create a China leaning group? Is there even any small % of silent minority favoring to unification or everyone is Taiwan is totally 100% anti-china? We saw that after HK riot died down, now majority of hongkonger seems to be pro china. But just 1 year ago, it seemed like literally every HKer were anti-china.
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Its super hard to do this. This requires an elaborate structure and most importantly experience. The US has a well oiled coup machine as they've been practicing this for over a century & is a critical part of their foreign policy.

China is new in this and is still in learning phases. But for this to happen, China has to employ dirty tactics. Like for example what if this group you talk about tries to fleece China of its money or double cross you? What will China do about it? Stop the money? Thats it?

How many overseas assassinations has China carried out? Can China eliminate a foreign politician for double crossing them? CIA sure does and that's how they keep their assets in check. US has hundreds of mercenary groups across the world to carry out such acts, how many does China have?.

Money alone doesn't work, there needs to be an element of coercion alongside. The latter is lacking in Chinas Foreign Policy .
 
5unrise

5unrise

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reservior dogs said:
In both Taiwan and Hong Kong, you have the majority of people who feel they are superior to the Mainland Chinese and do not want to be a part of the mainland. However, only a small group are actively anti-China.

The protests in Hong Kong, where the majority of people either defy or tacitly supported the movement came because the real estate tycoons have sucked the people dry with sky high home prices that priced out large majority of the people. The protest was as much about their economic condition of unable to get a house as with their fear of losing their superior status compared to the Mainland Chinese.

The Taiwanese do not want to be part of China for similar reasons. They feel they had a distinct identity which are superior to the Mainland Chinese. I suspect vast majority of them are not anti-China.

I believe the Chinese do have a lot of operatives working in Taiwan. Taiwan is penetrated on many levels, up to the highest government officials. However, the Chinese may not want to use their assets to create a pro-China faction. First, this would expose many of their assets, Secondly it would not alter the Taiwanese politics or policy in any significant way. You are fighting an uphill battle where the other side controls all the levers of power and has many ways to quash the group you created. It is much more productive to use Taiwan to improve your national power until one day you can surpass the U.S.
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Personal story (feel free to skip)
At work, whenever any colleagues learn that I am from Taiwan, they would just openly start rambling about their political opinions on China. It's like they think this is a way to 'connect' with me, to gain my trust or something like that. It's like Westerners have basically convinced themselves that everyone in Taiwan just feel that majestic Taiwanese identity. I do feel an identity of sorts, but it is not exclusive to, or subsumes, a Chinese identity. I wish they would just stop talking. It's kind of strange, because before they realise where I am from, they would almost always try to maintain neutrality or even be somewhat accomodative in the wording they use when discussing relevant issues.
 
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name

New Member
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FairAndUnbiased said:
CGTN is not an official diplomatic channel. They're not diplomats. Tung is a Hong Konger speaking about Hong Kong, not externally directed, and posted on China Daily which is not an official diplomatic channel either.

The only person from China Daily that people care about is Chen Weihua and well let's just say that he is indicative of a new era of person to person diplomacy with some of the new vocabulary you like, compared to the past.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334561058799964164
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Nitpicking cope. Chen Weihua and their fans are another proof of why Chinese messaging is awful. Calling someone a life time bitch may feel good but it's easy for the west to use that out of context to frame him as a misogynist. It's the same type of thinking that led to calling Australia 'gum stuck to China's shoe'. Western propaganda, which is actually effective, constantly portrays China as aggressors and portrays their own unprovoked attacks as defensive.

Who looks like the aggressor in the above quotes? China. Mission failed.
 
L

latenlazy

Brigadier
siegecrossbow said:
I wish it was never brought up as an option. True, only Hu Xijin brought up the shootdown option, but the Eastern Combat Theater saber rattling about "burying enemies" didn't exactly help clarify the situation, did it? When the enemies they intend to bury turn out to be yellow croakers instead, people are rightfully disappointed.

I am of the opinion that had they kept the threat vague until Pelosi landed, things would be no where as bad as it is now. In my opinion the patrol/live fire blockade training is a reasonable response.
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The language about playing fire was a long term threat, not a threat about immediate actions. China wants the US to have an off ramp so that there is no appetite to start a conflict. These exercises are meant to demonstrate the reasons they should take the off ramp.
 
A

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
name said:
Nitpicking cope. Chen Weihua and their fans are another proof of why Chinese messaging is awful. Calling someone a life time bitch may feel good but it's easy for the west to use that out of context to frame him as a misogynist. It's the same type of thinking that led to calling Australia 'gum stuck to China's shoe'. Western propaganda, which is actually effective, constantly portrays China as aggressors and portrays their own unprovoked attacks as defensive.

Who looks like the aggressor in the above quotes? China. Mission failed.
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actually it is extremely effective. engagement is the name of the game in the social media era. Spin and wording is obsolete 1990's TV era marketing.

look at the like ratios for Marsha Blackburn vs Chen Weihua on their own platform tells you all you need to know. She was utterly ineffective in framing him as a misogynist, and not for lack of trying.
 
F

foxmulder

Junior Member
name said:
Nitpicking cope. Chen Weihua and their fans are another proof of why Chinese messaging is awful. Calling someone a life time bitch may feel good but it's easy for the west to use that out of context to frame him as a misogynist. It's the same type of thinking that led to calling Australia 'gum stuck to China's shoe'. Western propaganda, which is actually effective, constantly portrays China as aggressors and portrays their own unprovoked attacks as defensive.

Who looks like the aggressor in the above quotes? China. Mission failed.
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He is the only one who can speak the "language" I 've seen on China side.
 
L

latenlazy

Brigadier
5unrise said:
Personal story (feel free to skip)
At work, whenever any colleagues learn that I am from Taiwan, they would just openly start rambling about their political opinions on China. It's like they think this is a way to 'connect' with me, to gain my trust or something like that. It's like Westerners have basically convinced themselves that everyone in Taiwan just feel that majestic Taiwanese identity. I do feel an identity of sorts, but it is not exclusive to, or subsumes, a Chinese identity. I wish they would just stop talking. It's kind of strange, because before they realise where I am from, they would almost always try to maintain neutrality or even be somewhat accomodative in the wording they use when discussing relevant issues.
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Unrelated to Taiwan but I had a similar experience with some HK colleagues at a previous job. I think they just assumed that I identified predominantly as American and thus was sympathetic to seeing China in a bad light so during the Umbrella Protests they basically talked freely about all sorts of resentments they had about Mainlanders like how Mainlanders pooped on the streets and hoarded all their milk powder, and were making their real estate expensive, aka Mainlanders are backwards and uncultured, while I just kind of kept my mouth shut and gently nodded to not start a fuss.
 
Bellum_Romanum

Bellum_Romanum

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Registered Member
Patchwork_Chimera said:
Lol, as a fun mirror-image of this, while I was in HK or the Mainland during the late 2000s and early 2010s, people I met would often really really want to hear what my own thoughts were on US-relevant topics when they learned I was American. Lots of questions about how things are, what people are like, commonly held views, etc. weren't uncommon. Another peculiar pattern of behavior was strangers (especially families) who would ask to take pictures with me, saying it was because of my blue eyes and light hair (people got a kick out of touching my hair too for some reason, which I did find odd, but honestly more bemusing than annoying). I guess it's one of those things where perceiving someone as being from a perceived "faraway land" of sorts, gives an added air of novelty and value to the interaction. I personally couldn't bring myself to be bothered by any of it, as it always seemed to be in good faith, and coming from a sincere curiosity, rather than anything bad.
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In America my experience was wholesome. Asked if I eat dogs, if I speak English, then when they find out my ancestry is from China, am asked why is China communist and maybe am in America (school) because of yearning from freedom, if I want to be a Christian etc...knows Kung-fu, am I good in math.

Mate, in Asia your skin color/race tends to illicit inate sincere curiosity, awe, and curiosity there will be exceptions of course. But my experience ain't unique or universal, but what I experienced isn't an isolated and unfortunately happens more frequently to my kind than not.
 
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