Fourth Taiwan Strait Crisis

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Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
The very same party that reunited mainland China, established the country into the 2nd largest economy and military power in the world. Created the most number of billionaires, millionaires, and the largest middle class in the world, a space power, technological and science power, manufacturing giant, HSR tech, infrastructure that's world class etc...

The Taiwanese simply wants to have their cake and eat it too...they could have their little democracy without goading and inviting American nonsense but nope they want to play the elensky game.
C'mon, first of all, it is not the party, it is the people of China.
Other side, internally from China the party looks like something very different, but externally the CCP is nothing else just the continuity of the Imperial chinese system. Few things changed, improved, but even the CCP headquarter is in the old imperial govermental center.

My point is not about the legitimacy of CCP, but rather to see it as a special thingy and as the main reason of the changes in China.

It is nothing else just the Imperial Goverment adjusted to the 20th/21st century, to counter the challenges presented by the Europeans.

And honestly, the external behaviour of the CCP is following the time honoured tradition of Imperial China.

I am sure regards of the current issues with Taiwan the Emperor would do the same say 500 years ago facing the same problems.
 

reservior dogs

Junior Member
Registered Member
its weird so many Taiwanese live work in China. Same language, same culture just 100km apart but China has 0 Political influnce on Taiwan. Does anybody in Taiwan even wanna be reunified to China at all ? American $ is doing miracles all over the world but China can’t even influence a Tiny nation right across the border ?
The separation happened some 70 years ago. The degree of control by the U.S. on the Taiwanese politics is much stronger than most realized. This is true of Taiwan, Japan and South Korea as well as, to a lesser degree, other countries throughout the world. A small group of people have a strong interest in creating a separate Taiwan identity from China. This was accomplished bit by bit over the seven decades, starting with Lee Teng Hui. Today, those in power in Taiwan, along with the U.S., are firmly in control of the many levers of power, propaganda, education, industry. This is not dissimilar to the situation in Ukraine, where a small minority gained power via a coup whereby the U.S. bribed the military to go along. This small group then pushed the entire country into a path of oblivion. The majority, who initially were either indifferent or against the ones in power are now powerless to stop this national suicide. Sometimes, a small minority, with outside help, can push a country in a path that the majority who voted for him do not foresee or agree with.
 

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
But they use some of this terminology already, especially after the diplomatic reforms in the Xi administration which saw the rise of Wang Yi, Zhao Lijian and Hua Chunying, among others.

I haven't seen "hurt the feelings of the Chinese people", use of the term "misunderstanding" except in conjunction with "miscalculation" which is much harder, or any of those softer terms in years. There was never a use of "rules based international order" except when actually quoting the US saying that, and always adding "so called". The Australia statement had the desired effect of escalating tensions.

the biggest difference between pre reform and post reform Chinese diplomacy is that they learned from the US that escalating tensions is a useful tool. Diplomats aren't only for solving problems, they can also be used to create artificial, controlled problems and crises that can then be solved in beneficial ways.

what I hope to see is that Chinese diplomats continue this trend of using carefully calibrated crises to force enemies into no win situations, which is a skill certain countries have mastered.

You really have to draw a line between pre reform (Deng era) diplomats and the new guys.
There's still a long way to go until they reach the skill level of Russia or the US. But what I mostly wish Chinese diplomacy would do is to officially drop the noninterference policy when dealing with countries that are directly interfering in Chinese domestic affairs. For example, send some tweets at the EU president suggesting China supports a free and independent Catalonia, or promote the liberation of French Polynesia. Every time there's a diplomatic meeting with self righteous western countries, China should mention its human rights concerns. Most western countries have issues with racist crime. Make European domestic problems an international issue.

Similarly, certain corrupt officials involved in public procurement scandals in the west should be punished with targeted sanctions. The West will only understand how insulting this treatment is when it experiences it itself. If China only defends itself, western countries will continue to believe that if China is being honest they agree that the West has the right to teach the world its values. China needs to make it very clear that it sees Chinese values as superior to western values
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
its weird so many Taiwanese live work in China. Same language, same culture just 100km apart but China has 0 Political influnce on Taiwan. Does anybody in Taiwan even wanna be reunified to China at all ? American $ is doing miracles all over the world but China can’t even influence a Tiny nation right across the border ?

What do you consider 0 influence? Ma Ying Jeou tried to pass a Mainland Taiwan FTA but was basically couped.
 

MrCrazyBoyRavi

Junior Member
Registered Member
The separation happened some 70 years ago. The degree of control by the U.S. on the Taiwanese politics is much stronger than most realized. This is true of Taiwan, Japan and South Korea as well as, to a lesser degree, other countries throughout the world. A small group of people have a strong interest in creating a separate Taiwan identity from China. This was accomplished bit by bit over the seven decades, starting with Lee Teng Hui. Today, those in power in Taiwan, along with the U.S., are firmly in control of the many levers of power, propaganda, education, industry. This is not dissimilar to the situation in Ukraine, where a small minority gained power via a coup whereby the U.S. bribed the military to go along. This small group then pushed the entire country into a path of oblivion. The majority, who initially were either indifferent or against the ones in power are now powerless to stop this national suicide. Sometimes, a small minority, with outside help, can push a country in a path that the majority who voted for him do not foresee or agree with.
That’s my main point too. How hard is it for lets say China to invest billions of $ to bribe people, prop up dissent or lets say help poorest people in Taiwan to create a China leaning group? Is there even any small % of silent minority favoring to unification or everyone is Taiwan is totally 100% anti-china? We saw that after HK riot died down, now majority of hongkonger seems to be pro china. But just 1 year ago, it seemed like literally every HKer were anti-china.
 

tch1972

Junior Member
The lesson in all of this is China is hopelessly incompetent in PR. The wolf diplomacy might be a good sell to internal audience but it just sounds so over the top and childish that no one takes them seriously. I find it laughable and over the last 24 hours, they made a joke of themselves, not only with the world, but with their own population.

Furthermore, China has done nothing to enhance it's soft power through media and cultural export. Look at South Korea, Qatar, Russia, Iran. Hell, Pakistan's single Twitter account did better PR on Feb 27th against India which is several times bigger than it in all aspects and controlled the entire narrative.

This is the lesson they need to learn. This is the hill they decided to fight on for really no serious reason. Even if they fight on this Hill over the coming days, they still need to sort out their PR

There is no motivation for them to improve as they are not in the business of fighting for public perceptions to stay in power.

To CPC long term results matter more than public perceptions.
I don't think there's enough troops there to reflect an actual military operation against the whole ROC. Gathering that much in just 1-2 days is insane.

At the very least they need 2-3 times more.

The most I expect the exercise can derail to is landing on a few outlying islands. Of course, if Taipei shoots at PLA forces, China could likely straight up change into reunification mode, but that would require surging more troops.

Those army units are here to stay in Fujian, China will only bring more and more troops to the next exercise and so on.

But then they can mobilised for large scale exercise encircling Taiwan within short span notice is truly impressive.
 

reservior dogs

Junior Member
Registered Member
That’s my main point too. How hard is it for lets say China to invest billions of $ to bribe people, prop up dissent or lets say help poorest people in Taiwan to create a China leaning group? Is there even any small % of silent minority favoring to unification or everyone is Taiwan is totally 100% anti-china? We saw that after HK riot died down, now majority of hongkonger seems to be pro china. But just 1 year ago, it seemed like literally every HKer were anti-china.
In both Taiwan and Hong Kong, you have the majority of people who feel they are superior to the Mainland Chinese and do not want to be a part of the mainland. However, only a small group are actively anti-China.

The protests in Hong Kong, where the majority of people either defy or tacitly supported the movement came because the real estate tycoons have sucked the people dry with sky high home prices that priced out large majority of the people. The protest was as much about their economic condition of unable to get a house as with their fear of losing their superior status compared to the Mainland Chinese.

The Taiwanese do not want to be part of China for similar reasons. They feel they had a distinct identity which are superior to the Mainland Chinese. I suspect vast majority of them are not anti-China.

I believe the Chinese do have a lot of operatives working in Taiwan. Taiwan is penetrated on many levels, up to the highest government officials. However, the Chinese may not want to use their assets to create a pro-China faction. First, this would expose many of their assets, Secondly it would not alter the Taiwanese politics or policy in any significant way. You are fighting an uphill battle where the other side controls all the levers of power and has many ways to quash the group you created. It is much more productive to use Taiwan to improve your national power until one day you can surpass the U.S.
 

In4ser

Junior Member
Not all are from diplomats but they are widespread general cringe at least in English.


bad vs better

Socialism with Chinese characteristics vs American dream

You have hurt the feelings of the Chinese people vs they are threatening our national security

The Chinese side urges America to please correct their wrong actions vs American belligerence, American coercion, American diktats

hostile foreign forces vs Western Trojan horse such as....CIA, NED, etc

America has politicized the coronavirus vs That is American coronavirus propaganda

Lab Leak Theory vs that is American coronavirus propaganda

Taiwanese independence forces vs they are violent domestic terrorists, separatists, extremists, radicals

Taiwan should stop relying on American protection vs America's scheme to keep China divided, American plan to destabilize the region or American's scheme to balkanize China, America is prolonging the Chinese civil war, America is interfering in China's unfinished civil war

Australia is the chewing gum stuck on the sole of our shoes vs the Australian threat, Australia's trade war, Australian interference

Century of humiliation or Century of National Shame vs era of Western invasions, Century of Western imperialism, Century of Western Tyranny,

why does the West misunderstand China? vs Western propaganda, Western atrocity propaganda, Western smear campaign

The West is critical of China / criticized China vs The West's smear campaign, disinformation campaign, anti China state propaganda

Imperial China vs name of Chinese dynasty, ancient China

long arm jurisdiction vs American economic warfare, American abductions, American kidnapping, Americancoercion, Western sore loser diplomacy

calling Western low skill parasites expats vs migrants, foreigners

factory of the world vs manufacturing or industrial powerhouse/juggernaut/colossus, world's industrial engine, heart of the world's economy

the Chinese people of all nationalities will continue to adhere to the people’s democratic dictatorship vs the people's party, will serve the people, the people's government







Chinese media is so incompetence that they routinely repeat western propaganda phrases.

Liberal democracy vs western oligarchies, fake western democracies

American intervention vs American meddling, American interference, the American threat, American invasion, American war of aggression

American exceptionalism vs American hypocrisy

regime change or color revolution vs overthrowing foreign governments, toppling the democracy, toppling the democratically elected government

sanctions vs starving families to death, starve the government into submission

Liberal rules based international order or White savior complex, messianic impulse, etc vs western tyranny, western klansmen order, western totalitarianism, western feudal order, western neo imperialist order

ngo vs it is another Western Trojan horse, it is another CIA front

Words matter because they have the power to greatly alter perception of reality. Anyone looking at this list who still denies there is a problem is basically coping and lying to themselves.
You forgot "Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned" vs. "Sorry, Daddy, I've been naughty." It probably explains why Priests seem to succumb to temptation after hearing confessions from their Altar Boys.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
re: misunderstanding

270,349 views May 24, 2019
The Point: Why does the West fail to understand China? - YouTube

can't edit soon. I'll get a better source maybe

re: hurt feelings

Radical protesters' blatant desecration of national flags has seriously hurt the feelings of 1.4 billion Chinese people.

By Staff writer in Hong Kong | chinadaily.com.cn | Updated: 2019-09-24 11:0
Tung: Desecration of national flags hurts feelings of 1.4b people - Chinadaily.com.cn
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re: rules based order was only very recently given a sarcastic remark, but I have seen this phrase used on CGTN and other debates within the past 3 years.

You're nit picking and coping. Now, you're changing topics about how diplomats are escalating tensions. The messaging problem is systemic. BTW, no one only pays attention to only diplomats. Proper messaging uses all platforms. Phrases like American dream, national interest, deter Chinese aggression, promote democracy, etc pop up all over the place. That's how they become ingrained in people's minds. Analyzing only diplomat's messaging is short sighted.
CGTN is not an official diplomatic channel. They're not diplomats. Tung is a Hong Konger speaking about Hong Kong, not externally directed, and posted on China Daily which is not an official diplomatic channel either.

The only person from China Daily that people care about is Chen Weihua and well let's just say that he is indicative of a new era of person to person diplomacy with some of the new vocabulary you like, compared to the past.

 
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