East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

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Blitzo

Lieutenant General
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If China had close allies that close to the US, then in international waters they would have every right to conduct such exerices, despite what the US might bellyache about.

Of course, it follows that the same is true vice versa.

I suppose the difference is about whether something within ones legal rights can still be considered... "morally" right.

Personally, I think the world should be inherently multipolar, with power more evenly divided. That means each big player gets their own backyard, and that means even if China were somehow ever in a position to dominate the Americas in the same way as the US dominates Asia today, I think China shouldn't.


Understood...and Xia is young. However, it will only help to learn early on to use examples that actually fit the scenario you are describing. Very important in any dialog/discussion/debate skills.

But...that's just my own opinion.

Yeah, I think the analogy was a bit tenuous as well.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
If China had close allies that close to the US, then in international waters they would have every right to conduct such exerices, despite what the US might bellyache about.

Of course, it follows that the same is true vice versa.
Is there any doubt if China stations planes, ships, troops, and missile systems in Cuba, a-la the Soviet Union, Washington would foam at the mouth with rage? Has the US ever been good with "what's good for the goose is good for the gender?"
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
You could be pro-US and still recognize the hypocrisy of US's stance on China's ADIZ. The notion that it's OK for US and allies to establish ADIZs, but not for others is weak sauce.


Agreed. But who will take the first step? I think since the US is the stronger party, it's better for her to reach across the divide. More PR games will only make things worse and not better.


Good suggestion, AFB, but national sovereignty squabbles are easy to inflate but very hard to deflate, we might have to let the thing run its course. Hopefully, it wouldn't lead to military conflicts.

The US has many ADIZs, so tell me whose sovereignty did we intrude on???? There is/was a lot of tension in the Sea of Japan/East China Sea, the ADIZ seems to be a "tool" to assert sovereignty over a group of islands, as I am rather certain that China does NOT feel threatened by Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, or even the US. Indeed the US has no desire to engage anybody, and I am rather certain that folks who "know" these things in China, are well aware of the US desire to stay out of trouble, so it really wouldn't surprise me to think that people might be pushing while the US does have some perceived weakness????
 

xiabonan

Junior Member
The US has many ADIZs, so tell me whose sovereignty did we intrude on???? There is/was a lot of tension in the Sea of Japan/East China Sea, the ADIZ seems to be a "tool" to assert sovereignty over a group of islands, as I am rather certain that China does NOT feel threatened by Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, or even the US. Indeed the US has no desire to engage anybody, and I am rather certain that folks who "know" these things in China, are well aware of the US desire to stay out of trouble, so it really wouldn't surprise me to think that people might be pushing while the US does have some perceived weakness????

How do you know we don't feel threatened?

Wouldn't America feel threatened if China puts this many forces around you?

The last time any country tried to do that to the US was during the 1962 Cuban Missile crisis. And Americans successfully pushed back the Russians.
 

AssassinsMace

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The Japanese were caught lying and demands China withdrawal the video as if that means that never happened? They suggest those are different aircraft? What does that mean? Not the same incident? But it means that Japanese aircraft have flown dangerously close before they were complaining about Chinese aircraft. They should've admitted it as a tit-for-tat but instead now they're exposed as liars by denying it never happened. What else are they lying about?

Mark this one because it shows the Japanese are willing to lie right now.
 

texx1

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The Japanese were caught lying and demands China withdrawal the video as if that means that never happened? They suggest those are different aircraft? What does that mean? Not the same incident? But it means that Japanese aircraft have flown dangerously close before they were complaining about Chinese aircraft. They should've admitted it as a tit-for-tat but instead now they're exposed as liars by denying it never happened. What else are they lying about?

Mark this one because it shows the Japanese are willing to lie right now.

Japan has lied before not just now. Remember the Japanese text-book controversy, denial over Nanjing massacre and WWII sex slavery, most recently Fukushima radiation levels.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Japan has lied before not just now. Remember the Japanese text-book controversy, denial over Nanjing massacre and WWII sex slavery, most recently Fukushima radiation levels.

Well we already know that but the Japanese today think they're on the side of good. They're not like what they were portrayed is the argument. It actually says more about those that defend Japan today. If this outright arrogant lie doesn't give them pause, if they think of it as nothing, then there is an anti-China agenda, conspiracy, whatever... That pretty much declares they are not on the side of righteousness or goodness. Like I said... If they have to lie or support a liar, then it's because if they were to tell the truth of what's the real reason why they're doing this, any ethical and moral person would see it as wrong. Hence why they have to lie.
 
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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
How do you know we don't feel threatened?

Wouldn't America feel threatened if China puts this many forces around you?

The last time any country tried to do that to the US was during the 1962 Cuban Missile crisis. And Americans successfully pushed back the Russians.

1. I just know those things, because I am the Air Force Brat, I've been observing this little waltz for 58 years, and I've learned to listen instead of talking all the time.

2. Nah, the only thing we are afraid of is the BHO team and their incompetence.

3. Moving ICBMs 90 miles off the Chinese coast would be provocative, and we wouldn't do that, even in the "cowboy era" of the early 60s, we didn't smoke the Russians or the Cubans?????? so we know how to play it kool....


China is welcomed to RimPac, if anybody in this country was "afraid" of China, that wouldn't be happening. We're trying to be pro-active in showing good faith, and nobody in China who is in the know is "afraid" of the US. However we will defend our true friends if they are threatened by neighborhood "bully's", just the way we are, but if our friends ignored our warnings to "not start something" and were the "aggressors", they would be on their own.

That's why the Captain of the Cowpens was relieved, no stupidity, cowboy acts, or incompetence will be tolerated, given the present circumstances, soldiers, sailors, and airmen are expected to be "professional" at all times......another act of good faith.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
1. I just know those things, because I am the Air Force Brat, I've been observing this little waltz for 58 years, and I've learned to listen instead of talking all the time.

2. Nah, the only thing we are afraid of is the BHO team and their incompetence.

3. Moving ICBMs 90 miles off the Chinese coast would be provocative, and we wouldn't do that, even in the "cowboy era" of the early 60s, we didn't smoke the Russians or the Cubans?????? so we know how to play it kool....


China is welcomed to RimPac, if anybody in this country was "afraid" of China, that wouldn't be happening. We're trying to be pro-active in showing good faith, and nobody in China who is in the know is "afraid" of the US. However we will defend our true friends if they are threatened by neighborhood "bully's", just the way we are, but if our friends ignored our warnings to "not start something" and were the "aggressors", they would be on their own.

That's why the Captain of the Cowpens was relieved, no stupidity, cowboy acts, or incompetence will be tolerated, given the present circumstances, soldiers, sailors, and airmen are expected to be "professional" at all times......another act of good faith.

Well said, AFB. I especially agree with the sentence in bold.
 
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