East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

Of course I know about it. So what? When China sent ships comparable in size to today's aircraft carriers to Africa, the US wasn't even founded.

Who would foresee even 30 years ago that the almighty USSR would just collapse and disintegrate overnight?

Today there's even NATO missile defense systems on land that once belonged to the Soviets.

Just a little over a few months ago that little but strategically important peninsula called Crimea were still under Kiev, but look at the situation now?

My point is that the shift/change in balance of power can take place and sometimes it can take place sooner than expected.

I wasn't really intending to seriously mean that all American forces should just immediately evacuate from the Western Pacific. This is not going to happen anytime soon, although we can't be too sure that it just won't happen in the future.

What I was trying to say however, is that, given the amount of American and allied forces deployed in the region, and the growing number of them, it would only be normal that China set up her ADIZ, which is her own right. And given the amount of forces deployed in close proximity to China, it's really hypocritic that the Americans and Japanese calling such an ADIZ "provocative".

You see my comments as absurd, but to the Chinese, it's just equally absurd if not more absurd, that when US forces are acting so actively so near our shores and important cities including our capital, the US still calls us for being "provocative".

xiabonan said:

Original words in Chinese were "无耻，无聊，无理"

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I would translate that as "despicable, hypocritical, and not worth responding to".

Are you implying that without US beneficence, the world would end in nuclear holocaust?

xiabonan said:

Why not US dismantle its forces in Japan, Korea, and Guam and retreat back to Hawaii?

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Well padawan , it is simply not going to happen. The US has far too many resource and diplomatic interests all across the Western Pacific.

xiabonan said:

Why not the US navy stop carrying out exercises at the Yellow Sea which is super near our Capital? How would Americans feel if there's a Chinese aircraft carrier launching jets and exercising with allied countries only a few hundred miles off the sky of Washington D.C?

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Because the US has two critical allies that also border on the Yellow Sea.

At some point in the future, if China can sustain such operations, they may well perform naval exercises a few hundred miles off the east coast. There were times in the cold war when the Russians did.

xiabonan said:

How would the Americans feel if Chinese aircraft carriers, military bases, stealth fighters, operate only hundreds of miles away off the coast of California? Furthermore sending surveillance aircrafts so near that perhaps if you're on a fishing boat near California you can hear the engines roaring?

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If they are capable of doing so...and if the relations warranted it...I am sure they would. It's international waters.

xiabonan said:

Setting up an ADIZ is provocative? Every country in this world is entitled the right to do such a thing as long as it doesn't affect safety of air travel or infringe upon other nation's air space. Did we do that?

It's only seen as "provocative" because now you guys can't do what you used to do.

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I personally do not believe it is provocative and know many Americans who do not. As long as the PRC uses it for what ADIZs are for, it is perfectly legitimate.

If, however, it has been established specifically to provoke tensions regarding those islands...that is a different matter.

Only through time and how the PRC uses the ADIZ can we tell. I am willing to wait and see. But the PRC establishing an ADIZ off of their own coast in and of itself is not provocative.

xiabonan said:

It's seen as provocative in the same way why the American Revolution was first seen as "provocative" by the British colonial masters. Or in the same way when suppressed African Americans stand up to voice their opinions and to fight for their rights.

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Sorry Xia, that is a complete non sequitur. There is NO comparison whatsoever.

The US does not "claim" China as its territory. US soldiers and appointed officials do not reign over and persecute Chinese in their own towns and homes. US people do not "own" Chinese as slaves. There is no comparison whatsoever.

Janiz, you are new here. Read and follow the Rules of Behavior.

No advocating or discussion of nuclear war.

No insulting other members.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION.

Jeff Head said:

I personally do not believe it (China's ADIZ) is provocative and know many Americans who do not. As long as the PRC uses it for what ADIZs are for, it is perfectly legitimate.

If, however, it has been established specifically to provoke tensions regarding those islands...that is a different matter.

Only through time and how the PRC uses the ADIZ can we tell. I am willing to wait and see. But the PRC establishing an ADIZ off of their own coast in and of itself is not provocative.

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Agreed in principle, except anything China does in ESC/SCS will piss somebody off, so the thinking goes if she has to upset someone, she might as well get something out of it.

Has any date been given when the F-15 intercept occurred?

Jeff Head said:

If they are capable of doing so...and if the relations warranted it...I am sure they would. It's international waters.

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If the geopolitical situation were reversed, I bet the US would be just as unaccepting of such a high PRC military presence near its capital and most productive cities as China is of USN forward deployed CSGs and airbases on its doorstep.

Sorry Xia, that is a complete non sequitur. There is NO comparison whatsoever.

The US does not "claim" China as its territory. US soldiers and appointed officials do not reign over and persecute Chinese in their own towns and homes. US people do not "own" Chinese as slaves. There is no comparison whatsoever.

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I think he means it more in terms of the actions of an "underdog" being perceived as harmful by the reigning power of the time, and a challenge to the status quo etc.

Bltizo said:

If the geopolitical situation were reversed, I bet the US would be just as unaccepting of such a high PRC military presence near its capital and most productive cities as China is of USN forward deployed CSGs and airbases on its doorstep.

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If China had close allies that close to the US, then in international waters they would have every right to conduct such exerices, despite what the US might bellyache about.

Of course, it follows that the same is true vice versa.

Bltizo said:

I think he means it more in terms of the actions of an "underdog" being perceived as harmful by the reigning power of the time, and a challenge to the status quo etc.

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Understood...and Xia is young. However, it will only help to learn early on to use examples that actually fit the scenario you are describing. Very important in any dialog/discussion/debate skills.

But...that's just my own opinion.

Bltizo said:

If the geopolitical situation were reversed, I bet the US would be just as unaccepting of such a high PRC military presence near its capital and most productive cities as China is of USN forward deployed CSGs and airbases on its doorstep.

I think he means it more in terms of the actions of an "underdog" being perceived as harmful by the reigning power of the time, and a challenge to the status quo etc.

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It's always tough for an established great power to deal with a rising one, especially when it involves an aggrieved former hegemon- feared and resented by its tributary neighbors- that still has memories of lost greatness. Talk about a Greek Tragedy in the making!