Crisis in the Ukraine

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Equation

Lieutenant General
I saw this yesterday, recall one of the Fighters saying this burning is the revenge for Odessa ... but I'm not going to watch it again to tell you the timing

Usually a captured enemy colors (flag) is a prized possession of a sentimental war trophy, don't know why these guys are burning it.:confused:
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
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Ok Jura but where are they?

There are supposed to be about 20,000 to 25,000 Novorossiyan fighters and the implication is that at any one time, half of them are Russian regulars fighting in Russian federation formations.

So where are they?

In a region and in war when even granny has a smart phone with a camera, how has the half the rebel army in full Russian Uniform and in Russian vehicles etc, managed to avoid total detection. How also have they managed to sneak all these thousands past the OSCE border monitors.

To be asked to swallow a lie is one thing, to be asked to swallow a ridiculous one is quite another.
 
I saw this punch coming :) but on last Tuesday, after you had made your prediction, I said two weeks: http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/crisis-ukraine-41-6939.html#post301233 and don't worry, I'd applaud you on, let me see the calendar, September 2

...

I might not log on tomorrow, so ... I'd be pathetic if I didn't acknowledge that two weeks ago SampanViking had been right, and I had been wrong, about the "tide direction" in the Ukraine conflict. Applaud for SampanViking!

P.S. Had this argument taken place in the pub I regularly go, I'd have offered you one drink on me, but not of a beer or ordinary liquor, but the most expensive they have there (which I think would be Whiskey or Rum about 10 years old) -- but this doesn't work when talking to a stranger in the Internet, does it? :)
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
1 September 2014 Last updated at 11:48 ET
Ukraine crisis: Government setbacks in Luhansk and Donetsk
Ukrainian forces have suffered a series of setbacks, as pro-Russian rebels advance in the east of the country.
Officials said nearly 700 soldiers had been taken prisoner since the rebel offensive began.
Earlier the military said government forces had been forced to withdraw from Luhansk airport, saying they had been attacked by a column of Russian tanks.
Ukraine's defence minister said it was now fighting a "great war" with Russia in which tens of thousands could die.
Valery Heletey said on his Facebook page that the rebels had been defeated and Russia had been forced to begin a full-scale invasion of the region with regular forces.
"A great war has arrived at our doorstep - the likes of which Europe has not seen since World War Two," he said.
"Unfortunately, the losses in such a war will be measured not in the hundreds but thousands and tens of thousands."
Russia has repeatedly denied Ukrainian and Western accusations that it is providing troops and equipment to the rebels.
Meanwhile, Ukrainian and Russian officials are holding talks with separatist rebels and international monitors in Minsk.
Some 2,600 people have died in eastern Ukraine since fighting began in April.
The conflict broke out after Russia's annexation of Ukraine's southern Crimea peninsula in March.
In other developments:
Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen announced a Readiness Action Plan in response to Russia's "aggressive behaviour", meaning a more visible Nato presence in Eastern Europe and to make Nato "fitter, faster and more flexible to adjust to all kinds of security challenges"
President Putin urged the European Union to show "common sense" and not to engage in mutually destructive sanctions, in his first reaction to the threat of new sanctions over Ukraine
UK Prime Minister David Cameron said Russia's relationship with the West would change "radically" unless it changes its stance on Ukraine
German Chancellor Angela Merkel acknowledged that further sanctions against Russia could aversely affect her country's economy, but said "accepting Russia's behaviour [was] not an option"
Russia's energy minister said Russia and Ukraine had agreed to hold talks on 6 September to resolve their dispute over gas supplies, adding that the EU had yet to confirm whether it would send a representative.
'Organised withdrawal'
The rebels have been gaining ground on Ukrainian forces in recent days, in both the Luhansk and Donetsk regions, and further south around the port of Mariupol.
Ukrainian news agency UNIAN quoted a senior official as saying that as many as 680 soldiers had been captured in Donetsk region after the recent fighting.
Col-Gen Volodymyr Ruban, chairman of the Centre for Prisoner Exchange, said "about 80%" of them were captured around Ilovaysk, east of the city of Donetsk, where hundreds of Ukrainian troops have been cut off since the latest rebel advance began.
Ukraine's security council confirmed that its troops had withdrawn from Luhansk airport "in an organised manner".
Clashes are said to still be taking place near the airport of the city of Donetsk, with separatists claiming that two Ukrainian platoons have surrendered.
There were also reports of an attack on a Ukrainian patrol vessel in the Azov Sea on Sunday night.
The talks in Minsk started on Monday, involving the so-called Contact Group which includes representatives from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe.
After several hours they were adjourned until Friday.
Rebel representatives appear to have softened their demand for full independence, telling Russian media they were seeking a "special status" for their regions within Ukraine which would leave them in charge of security and give them amnesty from prosecution.
The status would also "take into consideration the necessity of deepening economic integration with Russia", the rebels say.
Correspondents say what they are demanding would mean the de facto division of the country, as the Ukrainian government is set on closer economic ties to the EU.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, meanwhile, said he was counting on the talks to focus on "agreeing an immediate and unconditional ceasefire".
He also insisted there would be "no military intervention" from Russia in Ukraine.
Last week's first direct talks between Russian President Vladimir Putin and his Ukrainian counterpart, Petro Poroshenko, did not lead to any major breakthrough.
War in eastern Ukraine: The human cost
At least 2,593 people killed since mid-April (not including 298 passengers and crew of Malaysian Airlines MH17, shot down in the area) - UN report on 29 August
951 civilians killed in Donetsk region alone, official regional authorities said on 20 August
In some particularly dangerous places, such as Luhansk region, victims are said to have been buried informally, making accurate counts difficult
Rebels (and some military sources) accuse the government of concealing true numbers
155,800 people have fled elsewhere in Ukraine while at least 188,000 have gone to Russia.
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pla101prc

Senior Member
Usually a captured enemy colors (flag) is a prized possession of a sentimental war trophy, don't know why these guys are burning it.:confused:

well regimental colours would be extremely valuable. this looks like a flag they bought in some store so its not a big deal
 

pla101prc

Senior Member
did you ask the Editor of The Guardian yet? :)

this time they perhaps look differently from
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and probably will get a different medal than
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but what do I know ...

that ben judah guy sounds stupid, in the title it seemed as if he was suggesting arming ukraine then he jumps into sending spec op to kiev and odessa? make up your mind...and he has no idea what is going on on the ground in ukraine either.
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
a dumb question (and frightening): do you have a current list of Russian tactical nuclear weapons? I happen to know about the American W33 (for 8" howitzers) so I checked
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but it says "By 2000, Russia reported that nearly all nuclear artillery shells and missile warheads had been destroyed."

Of course I don't ;) It is a close guarded secret, and unlike strategic weapons neither Russia nor US (or China for that matter) like to talk about them . There are only educated guesses how many of them are operational :

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Nevertheless, I don't think Russia would need any of them to finish crippled Ukrainian Army . Thus far, even the rebel forces are sufficient to achieve desired outcome for Kremlin.
 
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