Crisis in Egypt & Middle East!

Re: Crisis in Egypt!

I love this dance of political correctness surrounding supporting a dictator over democracy for 30 years. And you know they're desperate for it not being called what it is when all of the sudden they bring up China as a distraction. I'm watching the news and the term "delicate" is often being used. Translation... Any government that takes control of Egypt, a major strategic choking point in the world, is not going to be as subserviant. Which tells you how far off the interests of the Egyption people weren't a concern. The fact is Mubarak has been their tank rolling over democracy in Egypt for 30 years. Aren't people who care about human rights suppose to be a people of conscious? Where was your conscious then not now when there's an uprising?

Re: Crisis in Egypt!

For someone whose forever criticizing the standard of Western reporting, your silence on the misleading/ and the avoidance of the real issues by the Chinese press is noted.

Re: Crisis in Egypt!

China's position isn't one of hypocrisy. Therefore has no bearing on Egypt. The Western press lies about China censoring coverage on Egypt. What? China has to word it the way the West does? Oh, yeah, let's cover-up the fact that you chose a dictator over all that bull over democratic principles. Love how their hero Gordan Chang lies in Forbes about an imminent uprising in China that's stirring because of Egypt. He has contacts that say this is happening. But that would mean Chinese people have access to all those mediums the Western press says are being censored. More contradictions as usual. And where has the Chinese press vilified the protestors again? Mubarak isn't China's puppet dictator. Who's the one spinning and lying about the truth? I love how even when something has nothing to do China, the China haters have to come out and make it about China. Who's the one that sat idly by while supporting dictators over their own democractic priniciples. Who's worse? The country charged with having relations with dictatorships or the country that charges others with having relations with dictatorships while having relations with dictatorships themselves? And what they loudly try to distract from the obvious is that ultimate hypocrisy. And what other countries in the Middle East are in threat of similar uprisings? Mostly pro-West dictatorships. Doesn't that say it all?

Funny how not too long ago those relishing at Asia turning against China. Now look what's happening. They don't like being served the very crow they like to dish.

Re: Crisis in Egypt!

so the president is gone, constitution rebuked, and parliament dissolved...and election is in 6 months. so from now til 6 month later there is a new dictatorship called the egyptian military, that's quite enough time for them to reinstitute a political structure that will optimize the military's benefit. and it gets better, the military has proposed restoration of the police. that is one clever call, no need to get your own hands dirty when you have the perfect tool to do the job.

as some netizen accurately put it: the struggle is only beginning.

Re: Crisis in Egypt!

I doubt, for now, the western press will go as low as labeling any less pro-west Egyptian governments as racist as some has suggested. They will first try the usual tactics of associating any such government with terrorists etc.
But who knows, if the domino keeps falling and more of the western sponsored Arab dictators, especially those in the Gulf, go down, the western press might just get desperate enough to resort to painting this is as a race or religion issue.

Re: Crisis in Egypt!

bladerunner said:

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I find Chinese news reports on the Egyptian saga , greatly underwhelming. Its is refraining from reporting on the core issue of the problem which is the desire of the people to be free of an opressive authorian rule, and the desire for a democratically elected governenment, but I suppose that can hardly be surprising.
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You left out the people's poor economic situation (the poverty, the corruption, the inability to generate/create/provide jobs, etc. and the 'hopeless' feeling from that) as one of the major/core issues. Some 'Western' media briefly mentions that at least even if they concentrate on overusing the terms 'revolution' and focus on the democratic cause. US is trying to balance the act between supporting and praising the people of Egypt and not attracting so much attention as to how their democracy propped up that dictatorship as - some would use - a 'necessary evil'. I've not seen France's or Germany's or Japan's major news station focus on that either; Only Russia took a shot on that topic from what I seen so far. Both cases hardly surprising either.

Re: Crisis in Egypt!

AssassinsMace said:

The Western press lies about China censoring coverage on Egypt.

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Who is the "Western press"? Do you mean every newspaper from San Fransisco to Athens?

For clarity, can you confirm whether:

a) the Chinese censors did or did not attempt to limit online discussion of what happened in Egypt; and
b) the Chinese press has or has not generally avoided expressing sympathy for the protesters in achieving their goals

Oh, yeah, let's cover-up the fact that you chose a dictator over all that bull over democratic principles.

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The "Western press" has previously criticised Mubarak and backing for him.

And what other countries in the Middle East are in threat of similar uprisings? Mostly pro-West dictatorships. Doesn't that say it all?

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Yes, that "Western" influence means it's hard for those countries to resort to massacres on the quiet to keep control because they know it will annoy their backers.

Oh, and that most countries in the Middle East are friendly with the US, apart from Syria and Iran. Iran is also going to have a protest, but don't be surprised if it's suppressed as with the previous ones.

Re: Crisis in Egypt!

Mr T said:

Who is the "Western press"? Do you mean every newspaper from San Fransisco to Athens?

For clarity, can you confirm whether:

a) the Chinese censors did or did not attempt to limit online discussion of what happened in Egypt; and
b) the Chinese press has or has not generally avoided expressing sympathy for the protesters in achieving their goals



The "Western press" has previously criticised Mubarak and backing for him.



Yes, that "Western" influence means it's hard for those countries to resort to massacres on the quiet to keep control because they know it will annoy their backers.

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All you say is a matter of interpreptation. And your interpretation is China is avoiding expressing sympathy. You forget the fact they do that with all the news. What do you want? Chinese pouring tears on TV. Don't see that in the Western press at all either. Saw a lot of emotion over the Haiti earthquake. But after the telethons no more tears and the problems in Haiti still remain ignored.

Criticizing Mubarak is a meaningless gesture. Does that mean China just has to give lip-service to the people of Darfur and thus no criticism of China is allowed? Funny how it's so easy for the West to pardon themselves. Ever hear of actions speak louder than words. Fact is when it comes to pro-West dictators... it not like you don't have a lot of leverage as with China. So it seems odd that you hold a lot of cards against these pro-West dictators yet they are never used. The uprising in Egypt was never a result of anything the West was doing to promote democracy. As they said Western intelligence didn't see any of this coming meaning the West wasn't involved.

Western influences make it hard to commit massacres? Ever hear of Rwanda? The Rwandan President Kagame accused the French of direct particpation in that massacre. Or how about in 1965 where the US and Australian backed Indonesian government masscred 500,000 to a million Chinese in less than a month. In that situation US pressure was used to "influence" Indonesia to deal with its communist problem pushing them to just kill anyone who was Chinese. And what about what was accused of pro-West dictators of Central America during the Cold War. Those weren't massacres? The fact is it isn't that pro-West dictators have a harder time committing massacres. They just get intentionally buried with the massacres that take place in countries that the West doesn't like.

You believe the West has never been involved directly or indirectly with massacres. What's that a result of? The Western media not admitting that the West does give the okay or stays silently quiet when their dictators commits the crime. How ironic and hypocritical! The Chinese media doesn't have to say anything to your liking about Egypt because China is not guilty of anything in Egypt. That's the West's mess.

The Western press is what you think it is. Yes they are all guilty because they're the ones that taught you to believe that Western puppet dictators don't commit massacres. Where are all their checks and balances?

Re: Crisis in Egypt!

ToxSic said:

You left out the people's poor economic situation (the poverty, the corruption, the inability to generate/create/provide jobs, etc. and the 'hopeless' feeling from that) as one of the major/core issues. Some 'Western' media briefly mentions that at least even if they concentrate on overusing the terms 'revolution' and focus on the democratic cause. US is trying to balance the act between supporting and praising the people of Egypt and not attracting so much attention as to how their democracy propped up that dictatorship as - some would use - a 'necessary evil'. I've not seen France's or Germany's or Japan's major news station focus on that either; Only Russia took a shot on that topic from what I seen so far. Both cases hardly surprising either.

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Oh yeah I forgot about that, Actually I thought the Chinese account was so sanitised I thought I was watching something different

Re: Crisis in Egypt!

Mr T said:

b) the Chinese press has or has not generally avoided expressing sympathy for the protesters in achieving their goals

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About this 'lack of sympathy' and what you posted a while back about 'demonization' of the protesters/egyptian people.

That is basically asking for them to think and talk/write just like the 'Western' presses. We know that isn't going to happen too often.

To me, it is better to see articles without 'expressing sympathy' or 'expressing hatred' because that shows obvious signs of bias. Some facts mixed with feelings is just recipe to make/become propaganda.

Lets face it - Not going to happen; each side is serving some of their own ends.

But I disagree with you on what you said back before - having shown the chaos from the protesting and rioting that did occur is not a 'demonization' of the Egyptian protesters or protest - though you absolutely have the right to think that way. The events speak for themselves - i.e. even images from Aljahzeera, France 24, etc: you want to drag pro-Mubaraks out of their trucks and beat them with objects, throw things at security or on the other side have security beat/shoot protesters, drag them to arrest etc, thats your own image/problem.

I have seen some TV news coverage by Chinese stations and frankly they are at worst just guilty of not emphasizing this is an overthrow of an dictator (anti-gov) and all the reasons behind it as some here said and probably many others know - though I am surprised they didn't spin it like the Russians as an attack on how such a dictator was propped by the US. However, I bet as written on it - like me when I watched it - does not see it as 'the protest or protesters are evil', but rather than just what this thread has in it's title: as a crisis. I do not recall a crisis as ever being seen as lovey-dovey or without violence and chaos.

Two wrongs do not make a right either. Articles like this:

The headline in the People’s Daily Friday warned that “Malfunction” in Egypt “is Good for No One.” Today, the papers picked up the theme and conjured, for its people, the image of a stable state undone by people power. “If Egypt becomes chaotic, it will be like a second Iran and the world would face disaster,” according to the Global Times. American politicians are “hesitating” to support the revolt, it added, because “they are eager to open the door to Middle East democracy, beginning with Egypt, but they are not sure if there is a beauty or a demon behind that door.”

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are really making a mountain out of a molehill. Oh yes, I smell some nice exaggerated 'fear tactics' from PeepsDaily. However, indeed no one knows who or what will replace Mubarak; and the US has been playing a balancing act to support the Egyptian protesters while not drawing too much attention to their former support for Mubarak. And it is a fact there are concerns about what would happen if a 'bad/unfavorable' person or influence(s) - voted in or not - gets 'control' of Egypt and/or makes it unstable. Pulling some 'bad' articles from known mouthpieces or quotes from it, then writing articles and making something of it is just poor practice IMO. Why waste the time? So again, mountain out of a molehill - and so is crying that 'chaotic emphasis' as some sort of 'demonization'; like the "OMG world would face disaster!" tone from People's Daily, too much emotion, no?



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bladerunner said:

Oh yeah I forgot about that, Actually I thought the Chinese account was so sanitised I thought I was watching something different

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doubt it.
I watched 2 chinese news accounts and frankly giving the 'revolts happening in egypt but wont touch why with 100 meter stick' still points at the basic event in egypt. Reporting 'overwhelmingly' on the 'glorious democratic liberation' (sounds familiar) is no better than reporting 'underwhelmingly'; both is used/trying to draw attention away from something; misleading.