COMAC C929 Widebody Airliner

tch1972

Junior Member
I know how challenging and demanding this would be, but shouldn't China strive for indigenization as much items as quickly as possible?
If china can installed local avionic on Y20, i see no reason for them not to come out with a civilian version. It technically within china's ability but problem lies with market acceptance.

Using Western avionics and parts is to connect to the mainstream global aviation market. Airlines don't need to train another batch of Pilots and engineers to handle the unique Chinese avionics. That will be too much of hassle and makes it unattractive to the foreign buyers.

Other than this you still have the problems of getting the plane certified by FAA and other aviation authorities worldwide . Using too many local parts only complicate and slow down the process.

We can only take things gradually. The important things is to get the plane certified and market acceptance. Once it done than we can talk about slowly replacing foreign components.
 

lcloo

Captain
Other than this you still have the problems of getting the plane certified by FAA and other aviation authorities worldwide . Using too many local parts only complicate and slow down the process.

We can only take things gradually. The important things is to get the plane certified and market acceptance. Once it done than we can talk about slowly replacing foreign components.
China's CAAC has an agreement with US's FAA on mutual recognition of their air worthiness certificate among other things.

CAAC and FAA sign bilateral airworthiness agreement

by
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
| Oct 25, 2017 |
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


An
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
between the two state aviation bodies came into effect October 17.

Under the agreement, Chinese and U.S. regulators achieved “full, reciprocal recognition” of each other’s civil aviation products, including airworthiness certification, according to the statement by CAAC. This agreement covers the airworthiness examination and approval of design standards, production oversight, export airworthiness, technical support and other areas of cooperation, the statement says.

What does the agreement allow? This agreement would help China export domestically developed aircraft like the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and the ARJ-21. FAA and EASA certification are the ideal imprimatur for COMAC. The ARJ-21, for example, has not looked like a candidate for
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
certification. This has limited its export potential, even at irresistible pricing.


The C919 is a different story because if (or when) it gets
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
certification via CAAC, then the potential market disruption could be significant. Such a competitor will be of grave concern to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and Boeing. China is the great fear in the big duopoly – many people have said
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
worst fear was the C Series ending up in Chinese hands.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
No one needs third world Russia
I have already told you the reason for the failure
No, you didn't tell us the reason for your failure. I asked if it's because you were fired by a Russian boss, outcompeted by a Russian colleague, or a Russian took your wife/girlfriend, or perhaps something else and I didn't get an answer, so we don't know the reason.

And btw, for your education despite your hate, Russia and China are both second world countries, but it's basically just a metric made up by Anglos to feel good about themselves so I wouldn't put much stock into it.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
Last edited:

Michaelsinodef

Senior Member
Registered Member
No, you didn't tell us the reason for your failure. I asked if it's because you were fired by a Russian boss, outcompeted by a Russian colleague, or a Russian took your wife/girlfriend, or perhaps something else and I didn't get an answer, so we don't know the reason.

And btw, for your education despite your hate, Russia and China are both second world countries, but it's basically just a metric made up by Anglos to feel good about themselves so I wouldn't put much stock into it.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
From the latest Shilao podcast (around the end/latter half), they give some stories for why cooperation with Russia has often been problematic (and historically, more often failures than success).

And well, I think we might see Russia leaving the CR-929 partnership, although that might really be for the better (making Russia into a supplier for some parts might really just work out better).
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
From the latest Shilao podcast (around the end/latter half), they give some stories for why cooperation with Russia has often been problematic (and historically, more often failures than success).

And well, I think we might see Russia leaving the CR-929 partnership, although that might really be for the better (making Russia into a supplier for some parts might really just work out better).
Firstly, Russia is China's biggest ally in the world. The Sino-Russian alliance is the most important anti-Anglo/American alliance in existance. No one who challenges or wishes to break this alliance can have any good intentions for China.

Secondly, while the Russians are known to be difficult at times to work with (which is not all on them because China has illegally copied several of their aircraft designs), they still have a lot of expertise, especially in aircraft engines, that China can benefit from. They are far far away from being some useless third world country with no tech to offer China.
 

Michaelsinodef

Senior Member
Registered Member
Firstly, Russia is China's biggest ally in the world. The Sino-Russian alliance is the most important anti-Anglo/American alliance in existance. No one who challenges or wishes to break this alliance can have any good intentions for China.
Stopping cooperation on a civil project =/= breaking alliance/partnership/relation between that of China and Russia.
Secondly, while the Russians are known to be difficult at times to work with (which is not all on them because China has illegally copied several of their aircraft designs), they still have a lot of expertise, especially in aircraft engines, that China can benefit from. They are far far away from being some useless third world country with no tech to offer China.
Haven't said that they bring absolute 0 stuff to the table or are some 'useless thrid world country'.

Anyways, I recommend you listen to the podcast (the part about CR929 starts around 51 minutes)
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Stopping cooperation on a civil project =/= breaking alliance/partnership/relation between that of China and Russia.
That's fine and I've said previously that my comments stand regardless of what happens with this single example of Sino-Russian cooperation.
Haven't said that they bring absolute 0 stuff to the table or are some 'useless thrid world country'.
I thought you were defending Xia's comments. I understand what you said and as I answered, if the Chinese were to claim that the Russians are too difficult to work with, then the Russians can as easily (perhaps more easily due to the incredible abundance of evidence sitting on China's tarmacs) claim that the Chinese are far worse partners as they take your expertise, copy your designs, then dump you. If we want them to get over our past, we have to get over thiers.

Additionally, Russia is an enemy of the US. To strengthen the enemy of your enemy is to aid yourself. At this point, I would cooperate with Russia even if the vast majority or even all of the benefits go to Russia. As long as China is not harmed, helping Russia is helping China.
 

Michaelsinodef

Senior Member
Registered Member
I thought you were defending Xia's comments. I understand what you said and as I answered, if the Chinese were to claim that the Russians are too difficult to work with, then the Russians can as easily (perhaps more easily due to the incredible abundance of evidence sitting on China's tarmacs) claim that the Chinese are far worse partners as they take your expertise, copy your designs, then dump you. If we want them to get over our past, we have to get over thiers.
From the podcast, the PLA did want to cooperate with Russia for say a SU-35 with Chinese electronics or the Varyag carrier.

But at the end of the day, they were like, ok, fine we can't actually cooperate and make anything in time, I just make it myself then. So we got J16 and Liaoning.
Additionally, Russia is an enemy of the US. To strengthen the enemy of your enemy is to aid yourself. At this point, I would cooperate with Russia even if the vast majority or even all of the benefits go to Russia. As long as China is not harmed, helping Russia is helping China.
China could be harmed if cooperation with Russia turns into a failure/drags on. Afterall, time is money (and valuable), and for this CR929, stopping cooperation, and instead just have Russia supply some parts could work out better/faster.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
From the podcast, the PLA did want to cooperate with Russia for say a SU-35 with Chinese electronics or the Varyag carrier.

But at the end of the day, they were like, ok, fine we can't actually cooperate and make anything in time, I just make it myself then. So we got J16 and Liaoning.
So what? You wanted a custom order and the store didn't want to make it for the price. There is no blame, no problem. The fact that China made the J-16 instead of designing its own from scratch is at the detriment of Russia and Russia took it in stride.
China could be harmed if cooperation with Russia turns into a failure/drags on. Afterall, time is money (and valuable), and for this CR929, stopping cooperation, and instead just have Russia supply some parts could work out better/faster.
Yeah, so? Some projects, cooperation works; on others, it doesn't. Maybe China wanted Russia to join the project in a capacity that was different from how Russia wanted to join. Maybe they work out their differences and maybe they don't. There's really not much more to discuss based on public knowledge at this point.
 
Top