COMAC C929 Widebody Airliner

xia3962243 said:

Do you know what a memorandum of understanding is?

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Yeah, that means China and Russia understand they will cooperate on this project. It is the normal step that companies/countries take as they get ready to sign the formal contract. Regardless of the final fate of the single example of the C929 (large projects/cooperations are rarely without twists and turns), Russia and China are firm partners on the global stage.

xia3962243 said:

Study and study China-Russia military-technical cooperation. Come here to discuss

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Study and study the difference between real world news vs. your imagination, and you will see that only real world news is worth discussing. Your imagination is useless here... and everywhere. Every time you slander Russia amid the backdrop of current global events, it makes people wonder what happened to you. Did you get fired by a Russian boss, out-competed by a Russian colleague, or did a Russian take your wife/girlfriend? Because nothing you say makes sense from a current (not Soviet-era) Chinese perspective.

escobar said:

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It sounds like the status of CR929 is currently under discussion and review, due to the western sanctions on Russia.

I feel in the end either China will go it alone or they would have to drop some western suppliers. It could go either way, and both sides would have to reevaluate the risks and returns of either option from their respective interest and stands, including commercial and strategic. Regardless, I think they should reach a decision relatively quickly, not dragging on for another three or more years.

weig2000 said:

It sounds like the status of CR929 is currently under discussion and review, due to the western sanctions on Russia.

I feel in the end either China will go it alone or they would have to drop some western suppliers. It could go either way, and both sides would have to reevaluate the risks and returns of either option from their respective interest and stands, including commercial and strategic. Regardless, I think they should reach a decision relatively quickly, not dragging on for another three or more years.

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I just don't get the hesitancy, with removing these western suppliers. Xian already knows the reliability of these suppliers ref the ma 700, especially whenever their equipment becomes competitive.

If the intent is to use these aircraft to form an independent foreign policy (selling to Cuba, Syria, Venezuela, whomever they want to), and to use these aircraft to perform secondary duties like refueling, C2, AWACS, presidential transport, special mission aircraft etc. then what is the whole point of the project? Just bloody buy airbuses, if you want transport or cargo.

The profit at least initially will not be there, that can't be the point. China will need to subsidize it until the cows come home to make profits.

Working with Russia, spreads out the engineering challenges, spreads out production, allows sales to different parties (based off of engine choice), and helps cement the partnership between the two countries. Take the hit on the development time, because you will have to anyways.

How much engineering effort does it take to make a air conditioner, an APU, whatever? Sure they will be shitty at first, but the industry learns, adapts, and moves on.

China must have known for at least two years that Western suppliers are unreliable, as Trump nearly canceled the ARJ21 and C919 in early 2020, and then heavily sanctioned AVIC in late 2020. Even if they didn't anticipate possible sanctions before, it has been on the headlines since then. So there is no long term future for Western suppliers. Also, given the political climate in the U.S. it must have been obvious for years now to China that the West will never let any Chinese commercial aircraft actually be successful, and that even if they are supplying parts reluctantly today, it is only to suck more Chinese resources into a failed project and string along China.

Unless China is somehow planning to capitulate to the West, the Chinese planners must realize that any project or plan going years into the future with the assumption that Western suppliers will be there as constructive partners is foolhardy.

Russia considers withdrawing from CR929 project “We have this project with China, it is not going the way we would like. As China becomes an industrial giant, it is less and less interested in our services,” Deputy prime minister Borisov quoted by Russian news agency TASS..

not good if true. its not about technology. Russia still have massive influence globally. this partnership shouldn't have break. seems like Russia-Ukraine conflict have long lasting consequence.

waiting for some updates from Chinese side.

sunnymaxi said:

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Russia considers withdrawing from CR929 project “We have this project with China, it is not going the way we would like. As China becomes an industrial giant, it is less and less interested in our services,” Deputy prime minister Borisov quoted by Russian news agency TASS..

not good if true. its not about technology. Russia still have massive influence globally. this partnership shouldn't have break. seems like Russia-Ukraine conflict have long lasting consequence.

waiting for some updates from Chinese side.

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I feel the same way. But the Chinese govt are usually pretty nuanced and good at theses geo political or strategic issues so I do suspect other things are going on causing this issue. UMC didn't want to share it's tech with COMAC which was previously mentioned, but maybe their tech is now a bit less advanced than the Chinese would like. Who knows but I also do not wish for this project to create bad blood between the two nations

MortyandRick said:

I feel the same way. But the Chinese govt are usually pretty nuanced and good at theses geo political or strategic issues so I do suspect other things are going on causing this issue. UMC didn't want to share it's tech with COMAC which was previously mentioned, but maybe their tech is now a bit less advanced than the Chinese would like. Who knows but I also do not wish for this project to create bad blood between the two nations

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spot on. Chinese government always take best decision, when it comes to geopolitics. it is in Chinese interest to stick with Russia. again saying, its not about technology.

initial problem in CR929 project, Russia demanded equal partnership but COMAC didn't want as China almost finance the whole project and main Research and development done by COMAC itself. plane will assemble in China as well. but somehow deadlock broke, both parties resolve all issues and project officially started in late 2020.

i think, the current problem is, Russia want redesign the CR929 to incorporate mostly local parts from Russian/Chinese firms. China won't accept it.

sunnymaxi said:

i think, the current problem is, Russia want redesign the CR929 to incorporate mostly local parts from Russian/Chinese firms. China won't accept it.

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What are the reasons for China to not accept that move?

Russia considers withdrawing from CR929 project: Russian Deputy Prime Minister​

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I read through the article, nothing in it suggest anything concrete about Russia actively considering withdrawing from CR292 project.

This is what the article reported on what Deputy Prime Minister Yury Borisov said. To me it is just a politician's talk to strengthen their position in the ongoing negotiation (with China) with a weakened Russian economy due to Western sanctions.

Russia is scaling back its involvement in the design of the Craic CR929 wide-body airliner in cooperation with China and could withdraw from the project altogether, Deputy Prime Minister Yury Borisov said at the plenary session of the Engineers of the Future forum on June 29, 2022.

“We have this project with China, it is not going the way we would like. As China becomes an industrial giant, it is less and less interested in our services,” Borisov is

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as saying by Russian state news agency, TASS.

“The Chinese have more requirements than we do today. Our involvement [in the CR929 project] gets smaller and smaller. I don’t want to prognose the future of this project – are we going to withdraw from it or not. So far it is going on,” Borisov said.

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Given Russia's current economic situation, it is unlikely that she can afford the money/resources and priority for the CR292 project over other more pressing requirements.

There are rhetoric and there are political and economic realities. I see the value of the project to both countries. An eventual compromise is reachable once the fallout of the current Western sanction dusts settle.

Rettam Stacf said:

Given Russia's current economic situation, it is unlikely that she can afford the money/resources and priority for the CR292 project over other more pressing requirements.

There are rhetoric and there are political and economic realities. I see the value of the project to both countries. An eventual compromise is reachable once the fallout of the current Western sanction dusts settle.

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CR929 mostly funded by China.

Western sanctions wont lift even if dust settle. sanctions are here to stay.