COMAC C929 Widebody Airliner

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Outdated technology doesn't make sense
Repeating a lie often does not make it true. Sorry Goebbels.
I already told you why the technology Russia is bringing into the CR929 is not outdated.
It is basically the technology used in the MC-21, which is better than anything Airbus or Boeing offer in the segment, taken to next level.

We have a lot of engineers, including retired Boeing and Airbus and Antonov, so Russia is pointless
So how many new airplanes has Antonov designed in the last 3 decades? I mean usable airplanes. Not prototypes.

Most of the designers of the 787 were in the Boeing design center in Moscow. You really underestimate how much MBAs have hollowed out corporate America. This is modern Boeing. Indians write the code. Russians design the airframe. Japanese and Italians build most of the large parts. Assembled at lowest cost non-union labor state of US. With all the quality as can be expected out of this process.

C929 never thought of cooperating with the Russians
It's just Putin's proposal and it turns into politics
Not only will CR929 fail, heavy helicopters will not cooperate with Russia
So what. Like any similar cooperation even if both sides decide to go their own way later they will have learned enough in the process that it will retire risk on their own separate projects.

A lot of inside stories are not as optimistic as you think
95% chance of failure of China-Russia cooperation
You remind me of the retarded Western journos who claimed the Power of Siberia pipeline would not be built when it was announced back in 2014. Must be true because I read that on the FT. That China would not be putting any money into it, and Russia was broke, so it would never get built. The truth is, Russia had the money, they did build it, and it did happen.

The PD-35 engine project is strategic. It will be used in the twinjet airliner (CR929 and/or Il-96), Elephant, An-124 engine upgrade. Chance of cancellation is 0%. Half of the price of developing an aircraft is developing the engine.
Russia had the contract to build the landing gear of the Boeing 777X. The production line is there. Boeing cancelled the contract in March I think. So. That is another thing Russia can do. The fuselage and wing are basically a larger version of the MC-21. The avionics will be mostly the same. Similar airframe with similar twin engine layout. Ok, maybe they will need to make a new APU, big whoop.

They have the Il-96 facility and they can either upgrade that or build a new one. Building a shed large enough to built it in is not a problem.

The composite material used in Russia is Zhongfu Condor
Riight. PET is carbon composite fiber. Must be since you said it Goebbels.

But Russia boasted that it was made by itself
You watch too much Ukrainian propaganda made by former TV producer and now Minister of Propaganda of Ukraine.

The natural gas ship built by the Russian Eastern Shipyard is made in South Korea and used by Russia to boast that it is made in Russia
Sections were built in South Korea yes. Because Russians are smart enough not to try to build complex things they have no experience in with no cooperation from people who know better when such cooperation is available. Not that it matters that much. Because the Novatek Arctic LNG-2 project is delayed with the sanctions on liquefaction equipment, those LNG carriers won't be necessary any time soon, I guess they will just continue work on the largest ever nuclear icebreaker at Zvezda.

Some Russian radar originals are imported into China, but Russia also boasts of domestic production
Russia produces its own GaA and GaN radar modules. I don't know why that is such a big deal.

You seriously exaggerate Russian technology, look at Russia in the Ukrainian battlefield hahaha
What? The Ukrainians getting creamed by poorly equipped Donbass militia despite being trained and equipped by NATO for 8 years?
And if you think actual NATO troops would do much better, you are wrong. In a conventional fight the only extra edge they would have over what Ukraine is offering is aviation, but Russia isn't even using most of its air defense fighters or interceptors in the conflict. Russia could easily take on any of the two largest countries in Europe's airforces and win. It would not win against the USAF. But the Russians would never allow it to operate properly in the first place. Every single oil depot, refinery, aircraft repair facility, aircraft factory, and port facility, would get Kalibrated.
 
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Well currently Comac is not under prohibition of access to engines, UAC is. CRIAC as a joint venture between Comac and UAC is. So well Comac can put Leap turbofans under the wings of C919 they can’t put a Rolls Royce Trent or GE NX series under the wings of a CR929.
COMAC is not sanctioned with regards to engines. Currently. I put the emphasis on that. However Xian is.
Xian is under AVIC. And COMAC is under AVIC. If you think the US won't just sanction AVIC and everything under it sooner or later. Well. Good luck. COMAC itself is already under US sanctions where US entities cannot invest on it because it is considered to be controlled by the PLA.

As for the huge, huge problem you talk about. It is easy to solve.
1. UAC divests itself from the capital of CRIAC.
2. Create a separate company, call it UAC China, who builds/supplies any Russian made components or services to CRIAC.
And hey presto. Bye bye sanctions.

That’s is going to cost in fuel and potentially more established airline buyers. A safe bet on any export market would have been to use the established common airliner engines of a comparable class IE 787 and A350. It would have been a really safe bet on initial flights to. But the Russian relations as they are mean that the CR929 is going to have to start with unknowns on the engines as neither one has flown yet. By 2025? Perhaps they will but that assumes everything comes up sunshine and happiness.
I already told you. They can restructure the enterprise if they want to. Russian companies have grown used to it ever since 2006.
Russia cooperate with India on their military naval projects for example. Russia's MIC has been under sanctions since 2014.

All it has to happen is none of their, oh so precious, Western intellectual property goes to the Russian side. And that none of their oh so precious Western fiat money enters the coffers of a Russian company. That's it.

More likely we are looking at a delay on first flight well certification on the engines then delay on production as the delayed flight tests. Then delay on introduction into service by delivery delays.
So, what else is new. Sounds like a typical aviation project. Where is my 777X.

Engines aren’t the only thing that will now be walled off. Any western systems will. Which will drive farther to question the relationship and force more development of expensive subsystems and substitutes have to be introduced and rated for flight certification in place of established specialty products. That’s going to push the price up.
It was going to happen eventually.
Do you really think China wants to remain dependent on foreign suppliers in the aviation sector long term?
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
Further Tu-214 upgrades are unlikely. The MC-21-400 will carry a similar amount of passengers. Tu-214 production will be a stop gap until MC-21 enters service in 2-4 years time.
highly unlikely. and this goes against redundancy and it will take 10 years atleast for MC-21-400 production rate to where Tu-214 will be.
It is not like you can switch between Airbus/Boeing. Thats the reason it will be base aircraft for Aeroflot. they have to maintain full cycle of operational engineering centers to support it. when upgraded Tu-204SM was created 15 years go it was for medium haul range with 215 passenger. it will become long haul for capacity around 180 passengers. this kind of special mission aircrafts can stay in air 14 hours.

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What is its maximum range with a full payload?

- Its range is 4800 km with a full payload (single-class cabin layout with 215 seats). The jet featuring the two-class cabin layout has longer range. In other words, depending on passenger load the airliner may move closer to long-haul aircraft.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Outdated technology doesn't make sense
We have a lot of engineers, including retired Boeing and Airbus and Antonov, so Russia is pointless
C929 never thought of cooperating with the Russians
It's just Putin's proposal and it turns into politics
Not only will CR929 fail, heavy helicopters will not cooperate with Russia
A lot of inside stories are not as optimistic as you think
95% chance of failure of China-Russia cooperation
You see Chinese propaganda will never show the foreign engineers we hire
But the fact that we do employ a lot of foreign engineers
Agreed that cooperation with Russia is meaningless, no technology, no money, no market
and extremely arrogant
The composite material used in Russia is Zhongfu Condor
But Russia boasted that it was made by itself

The natural gas ship built by the Russian Eastern Shipyard is made in South Korea and used by Russia to boast that it is made in Russia
Some Russian radar originals are imported into China, but Russia also boasts of domestic production
You seriously exaggerate Russian technology, look at Russia in the Ukrainian battlefield hahaha

Do you have a source for that claim?
 

xia3962243

Banned Idiot
Registered Member
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The end of China-Russia CR929 is inevitable
Russian dreamers can keep dreaming
Relying on Soviet heritage is unattractive
Russia's backward technology and engineers have no money and no meaning
 
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