Chinese semiconductor thread II

[LanceD23]

Yes, different animals, but my point is that the technical ability exists.

The issue is not jobs, there is fierce competition for chip designers. The competition is so strong and pay so competitive that Taiwan banned mainland recruiters. The DPP knows that many Taiwan companies cannot compete with mainland on salaries.

Be real about war time economy... First the US should ban all Chinese imports and any goods cannot be assembled from Chinese origin parts (i.e. "Made in Vietnam"). Do you see that happening?

US wont ban everything from China.
But chips and EV , heck yeah. I can confidently say if US government knows a specific product using China chips, it will jump in.
Unless it doesn't know.

You be surprised, China is real about the war time economy.

they are already preparing for that scenario when got fully sanctioned by west and massive job losses ..

The recent motok dam approval , 3 times larger than 3 gorges and whole western route for water diversion from tibet to north western china,digging water canals throughout . Those massive infrastructure project would absorb all the excessive people and more if they lost jobs are part of war time economy. they essentially building a new china in the western China. the water canal in south of taklimakan desert, the size of whole germany would be transformed.

So, there's need to build everything domestically

this is just in, trump mandate, any china built ships regardless of country entering US ports will be charged 1 million USD. It's all pointing that way.. Trump wants to sabotage China ship industry.

China may retaliate by the rule of any countries using Boeing plane entering China will be charged a high fee.

Mutual destruction in on. War time economy is real.

TSMC stops any service for 16nm and below for China and Trump demands ASML to stop after sale service and Japan stops shipping photoresist for DUVi. trump wants TSMC by forcing it to share its advanced tech of 2nm and below with Intel by establishing a joint venture. TSMC would eventually be gone from Taiwan. The collapse of Taiwan semiconductor is coming.

China should have a clean break with everything from taiwan.

 

[SanWenYu]

China companies won't do anything until being sanctioned.
Like Huawei make its cellphone all domestic components because being sanctioned. Its router not being sanctioned, so it doesn't care,
Still using qualcomm.

China and its companies needed to be pushed to the limit because they are not very proactive like US, it will ban every single chip from China.

Ren Zhengfei himself said more than once that Huawei, even hard hit by the American government, still wants to use American components when possible to maintain business relations with their American suppliers.

 

[LanceD23]

Ren Zhengfei himself said more than once that Huawei, even hard hit by the American government, still wants to use American components when possible to maintain business relations with their American suppliers.

that's why he's not the leader of China.
Chinese government already told them not to use Nvdia and told car makers use domestic substitutions.
I think chinese government would be upset if they know Huawei secretly using qualcomm chip on their routers.

 

[SanWenYu]

that's why he's not the leader of China.

China does not need to make every and all non-critical parts domestically. Not only there is the issue of scale of economy but also China does not have to monopolize manufacturing and be hated by everyone else in the world.

你把肉吃了，起码得留口汤给同桌

 

[LanceD23]

China does not need to make every and all non-critical parts domestically. Not only there is the issue of scale of economy but also China does not have to monopolize manufacturing and be hated by everyone else in the world.

你把肉吃了，起码得留口汤给同桌

come on man, you dont need to worry about that.

That's why US and EU setting up high tariffs against CHinese EV and chips so they can't enter their market.
They already save up their own market for themselves.

People are not sutpid. They can take care of their own.

You just need to worry about yourself... Worrying about others when you are still hungry is what? A saint like? Getting a statue rerected for good deeds? or go to heaven or recarnation successful after death,

 

[tphuang]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Nice, someone posted the entire Nikkei article on China's mature chip industry grow on a forum. It's not anything we don't already know

best part

More extreme measures include purchasing production machines capable of making relatively advanced 8-inch SiC wafers, even if the company is not yet able to make these wafers at an acceptable quality. The company then cuts the wafers down to 6 inches, keeping the best part of the materials, two industry executives told Nikkei Asia.
Because defects in an SiC wafer tend to diffuse toward its edges, the central area of an 8-inch wafer can sometimes provide a 6-inch section of usable substrate that is of higher quality than can be produced directly on 6-inch equipment.

Western SiC suppliers are in so much trouble.

 

[GiantPanda]

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Nice, someone posted the entire Nikkei article on China's mature chip industry grow on a forum. It's not anything we don't already know

best part


Western SiC suppliers are in so much trouble.

The most powerful point in the whole article, IMHO -- this is only the beginning because the Chinese internal market is so immensely huge that it can absorb 400% more local chips :

Even at the projected annual growth rate of 12.3% from 2023 to 2028, locally made chips would only account for about 26% of its overall market.

"It is essentially impossible for China to make significant strides to become self-sufficient for its IC (integrated circuit) needs -- both memory and non-memory -- within the next five years and probably not even within the next 10 years," Brian Matas, market research analyst with TechInsights said.

But the market is already being impacted by China's localization push. Doris Hsu, chairperson of GlobalWafers, the world's third-largest supplier of base material for computer chips, said the slowdown of electric vehicle demand and intensified Chinese competition has made the SiC market very challenging.

"The internal competition in China is too intense. There are too many [Chinese] companies swiftly expanding their capacity ... and as a result you can buy silicon carbide so easily everywhere," Hsu told Nikkei Asia.

 

[sunnymaxi]

"It is essentially impossible for China to make significant strides to become self-sufficient for its IC (integrated circuit) needs -- both memory and non-memory -- within the next five years and probably not even within the next 10 years," Brian Matas, market research analyst with TechInsights said.

2030

these people really don't know, Tsunami coming on all fronts be it material , tools and capacity..

they should be afraid.

 

[GiantPanda]

2030

these people really don't know, Tsunami coming on all fronts be it material , tools and capacity..

they should be afraid.

Yes, even more so because this is not an "overproduction" that the West likes to imagine where Chinese goods are forced to export.

This is simply China, Inc. ramping up to supply itself. There is a massive amount of room for left growth since the Western trade/tech war has forced the Chinese market to go local.

There is a lot of pain in store for all legacy companies that used to dominate the Chinese production chain. This is a wave of new competitors coming.