Chinese Internal Politics

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Is a simple majority enough to win the election in Taiwan and what is the process of independence from China, Is it just a case of the winning party declaring independence or it get tabled in parliament for a vote? and how did the KMT TPP alliance get sabotaged
No offense, but the issue is pointless. It is like asking "how can one legally murder someone" because Taiwan has already fxxked up ROC's constitution. If people sitck to the law, there is no way Taiwan can break away from mainland according to ROC constitution. See explaination further down.

The process of independence would require a constitutional amendment since the Constitution is that of the Republic of China, all of China, not just Taiwan which is technically just a provincial territory legally. To even make amendments requires a plebiscite approved by something like 2/3 majority of the Legislative Yuan, then the amendment can only pass if something 75% approve with at least 75% turnout or something like that.

Edit: the exact numbers are probably wrong, but you get the idea

Here is the constitution of ROC at its first edition 1946.

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第 一 章 总纲​

第四条     中华民国领土,依其固有之疆域,非经国民大会之决议,不得变更之。

ROC territory must not be altered withiout approval of National Congress.

National congress is elected from all territory of ROC which includes mainland. Note, National congress is NOT Legislative Yuan.

第十四 章 宪法之施行及修改​

第一百七十四條  憲法之修改,應依左列程序之一為之:
  • 由國民大會代表總額五分之一提議,三分之二之出席,及出席代表四分之三之決議,得修改之。
  • 由立法院立法委員四分之一之提議,四分之三之出席,及出席委員四分之三之決議,擬定憲法修正案,提請國民大會複決此項憲法修正案應於國民大會開會前半年公告之。

Constitution amendment can only by passed by National congress, either proposed by Legislative Yuan or National congress itself.

Here is the amendment up to now
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第一条     中华民国自由地区选举人於立法院提出宪法修正案、领土变更案,经公告半年,应於三个月内投票复决,不适用宪法第四条、第一百七十四条之规定。

People of ROC "free" area can propose amendment and territory change, 6 months publication, voted on in 3 months. Contititution 174 does not apply.

宪法第二十五条至第三十四条及第一百三十五条之规定,停止适用。

第十二条    宪法之修改,须经立法院立法委员四分之一之提议,四分之三之出席,及出席委员四分之三之决议,提出宪法修正案,并於公告半年後,经中华民国自由地区选举人投票复决,有效同意票过选举人总额之半数,即通过之,不适用宪法第一百七十四条之规定。

Amendment (including territory change) must be proposed by 1/4 Legislation Yuan, 3/4 attending, and 3/4 of the attending deputies' approval to become a referendum to be voted on by people in "free" area of ROC. The amemdment is passed with 1/2 of the voting population. Article 174 of constituion does not apply.

This is a self coup d'etat. The amendment invalidates article 174 which needs a vote from National congress whichs in turn needs electors from mainland in the first place. It also deprievs mainlanders constutional rights without going through the amendment procedure which is article 174. To put in a simple term, two people signed a contract which states "contract terms can not be alterred without consent from both parties". However one guy later declared to invalidate this clause giving him sole "power" to invalidate this clause. What is that!

So if we speak purely about law and logics, All Taiwan's amendments to the constituion so far are against ROC constitution. Any future action to change ROC territory without voters from mainland (to form new session of National Congress) is against constitution of ROC.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Is there any legal barrier to hosting US troops?
I don't think there is any (ROC law) legal barrier to host any foreign troops.

If they’re looking for a casus belli, that would seem to be the easier route than a formal independence declaration.
I suppose you meant PRC is looking for a casus belli, because I don't see why Taiwan is looking to initiate a war. In this case hosting foreign troops and declaring independece are the same due to PRC's anti-secession law.
 

Feima

Junior Member
Registered Member
and how did the KMT TPP alliance get sabotaged

There wasn't any external sabotage. KMT deems themselves the senior party and therefore "deserves" to supply the presidential candidate. Whereas why would Ko of TPP bother if not to run for president? Ko has been cultivating the persona of possessing a super-villian IQ, and in recent years he seems to be believing his own hype, no way he starts a party just to be the junior.
 

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
No offense, but the issue is pointless. It is like asking "how can one legally murder someone" because Taiwan has already fxxked up ROC's constitution. If people sitck to the law, there is no way Taiwan can break away from mainland according to ROC constitution. See explaination further down.



Here is the constitution of ROC at its first edition 1946.

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or
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!




Constitution amendment can only by passed by National congress, either proposed by Legislative Yuan or National congress itself.

Here is the amendment up to now
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



Amendment (including territory change) must be proposed by 1/4 Legislation Yuan, 3/4 attending, and 3/4 of the attending deputies' approval to become a referendum to be voted on by people in "free" area of ROC. The amemdment is passed with 1/2 of the voting population. Article 174 of constituion does not apply.

This is a self coup d'etat. The amendment invalidates article 174 which needs a vote from National congress whichs in turn needs electors from mainland in the first place. It also deprievs mainlanders constutional rights without going through the amendment procedure which is article 174. To put in a simple term, two people signed a contract which states "contract terms can not be alterred without consent from both parties". However one guy later declared to invalidate this clause giving him sole "power" to invalidate this clause. What is that!

So if we speak purely about law and logics, All Taiwan's amendments to the constituion so far are against ROC constitution. Any future action to change ROC territory without voters from mainland (to form new session of National Congress) is against constitution of ROC.
Why do people expect a Taiwanese declaration of independence to follow some kind of legal process? Did Mao follow ROC law when he proclaimed the PRC? Of course not. American independence didn't require a referendum. At the end of WW1, the end of the German monarchy was also just proclaimed, illegally, but everyone followed

When a new state is started by proclamation it only needs one guy to shout something, no vote is needed. If everyone follows, then that's enough. The precedent is very clear

So of course a DPP president could proclaim a republic of Taiwan and announce the dissolution of the ROC and then build a new assembly for writing a constitution for the new country.

The only reason why they might organise a referendum on independence first is to get international legitimacy and military aid. But again, they could claim that the next presidential election is essentially a vote on independence and then use a landslide victory for justification of a declaration of independence
 

Luke Warmwar

New Member
Registered Member
Live Election Results

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It’s very early days, but Kou is leading.

Does anyone know how vote counting and vote distribution works in Taiwan? Does blue typically do well earlier in the night, or later?

IMG_8098.jpeg
 
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plawolf

Lieutenant General
So looks like Lai won, even though not all votes counted. Any rumors about some PLAAF exercises soon? @Temstar

China and the PLA are too dignified and responsible to throw a proverbial temper tantrum just because their least favourite candidate won. So there won’t be any immediate sabre rattling, but I expect the PLAAF to do a strong show of force at the first provocation to signal to Lai that actions carry consequences.
 
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