Chinese Internal Politics

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Sigh. Both Li Shangfu and Qin Gang have been stripped off all of their titles in government.

It's a slap in the face moment for those, me included, who were hoping for the best. It's also a slap in the face for Xi and China.

The lack of transparency from the authority played into the enemy's hands. Not that I changed my view on the western media but I have to admit that they scored a point on this incident which gave them the credibility on reporting leaks about Chinese internal politics.

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Li Shangfu is also removed from CMC.

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But who said "western style transperency" is the right procedure for anything? Why should anyone care how China's legal process is carried out differently from the west? The purpose of an effective system is to find and remove the bug, so long as that purpose is served it is good system.

China remove someone and make anouncement when investigation is over. The west spread out all sorts of information regarding a person who may or may not be of wrong doing. To me that is wrong in that it allows "mob justice", granting unduly external influnce to pressure on judical system. Western style transperency is a double-edged sword, on the one hand it prevent abuse of power, on the other hand it allows interference from verious interest groups including the enemy. It is the same thing as "democracy" where corrupted and incompetent leaders can be removed but also a foreign agent can be installed, such as Von De Lyen and Zelensky etc.

The west win NOT because China is not as transparent as they are, the west win because people actually pay attention in west advocacy of their "transparency", that is when people here begin to rely the information from the west.
 
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SanWenYu

Captain
Registered Member
It seems that some of you are misunderstanding my frustration. It's not about Li and Qin getting investigated and disciplined. We all agree on the bright side of it which means that the anti-corruption system is working.

It's about whether there is a way for China to not let the enemy to score easy points in PR war while keeping the systems working.

No we cannot pretend that the western media do not exist unless we don't care about the PR war. We can disdain the western media strategically but we have to take them seriously in tactics.
 

emblem21

Major
Registered Member
It's a slap in the face of China's enemies, who hope we do not stay innovative and efficient, who hope that we rest on our laurels and allow bloat.

Think of how much better procurement is gonna be once we got rid of those that didn't pass the metrics and bring in more competent politicians in charge.

The likes of Shoigu, Gerasimov and the whole IDF high command can only pollute China's military ranks if China lets them. Don't let them.
Provided that China doesn’t sustain unnecessary loses and continues it current procure and upgrades while either manipulating (quietly) or simply letting the USA waste its resources on stupid pointless ventures is a victory for China given that it help makes Chinas future fights that much easier. In fact if the USA falls with Russia shaken but not stired while China remains mostly untouched, we can consider China to be the overall victor despite not doing much of the heavy lifting.

If continuing to regulate and replace members who harm Chinas overall interest is a bad thing, then please tell me, what has been the net benefit of keeping emotional idiots like Lloyd Austin, John Kirby, Victoria Nuland, the walking disaster that is Jake Sullivan and friggen Blinken who all should have been thrown out long ago for the debacles in Afghanistan, Ukraine (which they spent all that resources only to end in a counteroffensive that is about to go in the reverse due to sheer stupidity of command which lead by the USA) and now the Israeli crisis which has the potential to literally blast its efforts of turning the global south against China and Russia into a million piece of it hasn’t already.

All of these people should quite frankly be thrown in front of a firing squad. China deserves to fall if they let any three of these debacles happen at once on their watch which means the fact that China has yet to commit even ones of these debacles means that China doesn’t deserve to be criticised one bit from trimming unwanted fat so to speak. I dare say that China is better than Russia at this given that China has yet to do a Ukraine to Taiwan despite that fact that Russia isn’t losing but a more skilful leader would probably not have let things get to that point that it did. But much of this blame should lie with the fact that Putin had to correct the mistakes of his predecessors who are all but traitors to Russia in all but name who also should’ve been sent to the chopping block for all the harm done.

To be fair though, the US had all its advantages and basically managed to lose so damn badly to a so called gas station in the middle of nowhere that really how can they be called a super power if it’s leadership is literally the definition of super dumb as f@ck. PR wins mean nothing if the nation falls apart and if China still stands while the USA ends up in a mad max (those tent cities should serve as foreshadowing given how little is being done to fix this), then really these PR victories on some minister being demoted and removed might has been be part of a comedy skit as far as the average Chinese person is concerned because much of the 1 billion people population of China and most of the world in fact while in the decades to come will be wondering, how is the blazing f@ck did a super power go from the victor of the Cold War to being Homer Simpson moonlighting as nikocado avocado. No amount of PR wins can possibly distract from that and even I can’t work out until this day as to why on earth this man isn’t dead yet, kinda like the nation he is currently living in and yes, it is the USA and he (Nikocado) does exist and seriously he really does symbolises what the USA is right is literally every single sense of the world
 
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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
It is still important to remember that competency and corruption aren't necessarily opposites. You can be corruption free but very incompetent (lots of examples), or corrupt but still very competent (also lots of examples).
Good examples of this are the way the Liaoning was purchased from Ukraine. Or the Dalian shipyard which built Type 002 and several Type 055 yet got its CEO arrested. Just because someone is corrupt does not mean they aren't competent.

If China is serious about fighting corruption they need to properly filter people before they are appointed to such high offices. Doing it right afterward they got appointed are were in service is what was disgracing I think.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
It is still important to remember that competency and corruption aren't necessarily opposites. You can be corruption free but very incompetent (lots of examples), or corrupt but still very competent (also lots of examples).
Afaik the issue here is that they *allowed* budget overruns and bad oversight within their responsibility areas. If they were personally corrupt, it would be a criminal charge and not dismissal.

This is doubtlessly a type of incompetence. Perhaps not as grave levels of incompetence as the likes of Von der Leyen, but those standards are shockingly low.
I just hope Li Shangfu wasn't removed cause China bend the knee on US sanction request.
Plenty of other officials in other positions that have active beef with the US. China only cares about Chinese law firstly and UN law secondly. The officials of China all work on diplomatic immunity, so they don't have a reason to care about what US thinks, even if they travel to the US.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
It seems that some of you are misunderstanding my frustration. It's not about Li and Qin getting investigated and disciplined. We all agree on the bright side of it which means that the anti-corruption system is working.

It's about whether there is a way for China to not let the enemy to score easy points in PR war while keeping the systems working.
The "PR war" is meaningless and shouldn't be a source of frustration. There's plenty to be actually concerned about like China's technological advancement and military buildup. To even acknowledge what Western propaganda bleats isn't worthwhile.
 

coolgod

Colonel
Registered Member
Afaik the issue here is that they *allowed* budget overruns and bad oversight within their responsibility areas. If they were personally corrupt, it would be a criminal charge and not dismissal.
Where did you hear this? If it was personal corruption the criminal charges/party charges haven't been laid yet.

Anyways lets not read too much into Qin Gang and Li Shangfu. They were removed from their posts, but the reason of their removal is still unknown, western media talking points are just rumors at this point since China didn't officially announce their misconduct.


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Taiwan's next "president" candidates are all pro-independence basically. Great for armed reunification fans.
 

KYli

Brigadier
It seems that some of you are misunderstanding my frustration. It's not about Li and Qin getting investigated and disciplined. We all agree on the bright side of it which means that the anti-corruption system is working.

It's about whether there is a way for China to not let the enemy to score easy points in PR war while keeping the systems working.

No we cannot pretend that the western media do not exist unless we don't care about the PR war. We can disdain the western media strategically but we have to take them seriously in tactics.
I understand what you mean. However, as important as PR is and as powerful and influential as Western Media are, such PR war has not prevented the US from falling of cliff.

I would argue that the Western powers have become too good at PR that their own leaders and people have been consumed with such PR war and victory. The success of PR from the West has become a problem for them instead of helping them. Just look at the culture war in the US and the infighting within Congress, the US has lost its way.
 
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