I mean how do you completely eliminate corruption in government ? That’s tough. Chinese imperial system in the past struggled with it, I’m sure they have thought about it and came up with certain measures. Afterall, at that times corruption can bring down the whole empire, many dynasties definitely tried to learn from the previous ones before it to learn from mistakes but it’s still impossible. American way is to legalize it with campaign donations, lobbying, presidential perks etc. debatable whether it’s good on the whole or not. Singapore way is to give their ministers especially the PM ridiculously high salaries compared to other countries. Anyway, it’s a tough one. As for Qin, it’s even harder to eradicate a man‘s horniness, you can say he is weak and not good character but let’s face it, every man with at least some sex drive and normal hormones, gets tempted once in awhile and maybe more.
Chinese Internal Politics
- Thread starter FairAndUnbiased
- Start date
singapore in only one of many cases, a more relevant case would be the USSR.
depends on how one defines corruption. if corruption means government officials enriching themselves by taking bribes, that is something quite prevalent in China but it is in the process of being suppressed. however, this is a very narrow definition. a more comprehensive definition would be holders of power using that power to benefit themselves instead of its intended beneficiaries. now that is something that is impossible to eradicate. your only option is to decide what is worth the risk. for example, 1980s-2000s China needed business investment and infrastructure building everywhere, and that relied on initiatives of local governments. the best way to compel bureaucrats to take initiative was to allow them the personal benefit of taking bribes in the process. that was a major reason why corruption in its narrow definition was so rampant, in a way it was the party's incentive structure to promote economic growth. the party is now coming down hard on those practices, not because it suddenly realized how dangerous it was, the party has always known the risk, but because the party no longer needs to grow the economy in that manner.
the problem is, as the party crack down on corruption, corruption simply takes on a new form. government officials not taking bribes but dodges responsibility or misreporting to higher is also a form of corruption. maybe at some point in the future it will become the main target of the crackdown, at which point even newer forms of corruption emerges. this is why i said before that anti-corruption effort is permanent because corruption will always exist as a by-product of power.
Singapore's Civil Service high salaries is as much an anti-corruption thing as it is an issue of attracting talent to the civil service.
Larger countries have (usually) a larger populace to draw patriots from. The larger the population base, the more likely you are to have someone who is capable and willing to do the job of a large MNC CEO but at a fraction of the monetary reward.
Which is basically what the ministerial pay in Singapore is all about. How do you attract C-suite type ability to "serve the nation" at a fraction of the pay they can otherwise get in the commercial sector?
Prestige? Being top dog of SG is nowhere near as prestigious as many other countries. It's in fact a non-stop balancing act of sucking up to both east and west while satisfying a majority mandate that expects them not drop the ball ... the public has zero tolerance for public service failures.
Post public office kickbacks? Like US presidents doing $100mil speaking tours after their presidency? Signing $65mil book deals? I laugh when people say that POTUS is only paid only $400k in office - there is no such kickback scheme within the Singapore context simply because there is no large enough population/economy for such.
My observation at the lower rungs of associations and NGOs is that where you have people working, supposedly for the masses, on a voluntary basis is where you need to look out more for abuse of power and corruption. Yes, it exists in Singapore.
To draw a parallel to another ancient vice - the sex trade is illegal in Singapore but yet there are areas where they operate openly ... the same approach to managing the sex trade is the same with corruption (avarice as a vice). You can never eradicate it ... so you manage it.
I've always enjoyed taking out-of-town visitors to certain parts of Singapore where hookers and brothels line the street. The law that solicitation and brothels are illegal in Singapore and the image of Singapore having a straight laced government is easily challenged by this one excursion.
The idea is that too heavy a hand drives everything underground. When it is underground, the stakes are higher so the transgressions and criminal elements become worse. Giving it an outlet within defined boundaries helps take the edge off, making extreme transgressions very unlikely and easier to spot as those content with the open crumbs will dob on those rocking the boat too much.
So what happened a few years back, some pimps got cocky and abused an anti-vice officer (they slapped a female ASP). The ensuing operation swept the streets clean in a clear demonstration that the lines had been crossed. It's slowly coming back by covid years effect on cross-border movements. (The vast majority of sex workers are not local)
The solution is as you say, legalise it in some ways, close your eyes in some other, draw boundaries (written or unwritten) of what is acceptable or not acceptable and then throw the book ever so often at transgressors to remind everyone to stay within bounds. 杀鸡儆猴. Sounds familiar?
Haha yeah geylang and that four levels of Babylon whorehouse are famous even for foreigners. Although having grew up in sg I actually never knew about them. Anyway dun want to stray too far from topic of corruption and vice so I won't elaborate on sex trade in sg.
I can understand where they are coming from regarding attracting talent from private sector and small population base reading minister pay although I have my doubts and how much it is relevant and how will it translate if china goes this way. I think it won't help that much but that's my opinion lol
Combat veteran Liu Zhenli is top contender to replace China’s missing defense minister
General Liu Zhenli, the head of the military body responsible for China’s combat operations and planning, has emerged as the top contender to replace the country’s defense minister, Reuters reports citing sources.
The appointment of Liu to replace Defense Minister Li Shangfu – likely to happen before Beijing holds an international security forum later in October – could boost military engagement with the United States amid regional tension.
General Li was sanctioned by the US in 2018 for an arms deal he secured with Russia in an earlier role. China has demanded that the curbs, which include a visa ban and prohibitions on conducting US financial transactions, be lifted. Liu is not under Western sanctions.
#China
@asianomics
General Liu Zhenli, the head of the military body responsible for China’s combat operations and planning, has emerged as the top contender to replace the country’s defense minister, Reuters reports citing sources.
The appointment of Liu to replace Defense Minister Li Shangfu – likely to happen before Beijing holds an international security forum later in October – could boost military engagement with the United States amid regional tension.
General Li was sanctioned by the US in 2018 for an arms deal he secured with Russia in an earlier role. China has demanded that the curbs, which include a visa ban and prohibitions on conducting US financial transactions, be lifted. Liu is not under Western sanctions.
#China
@asianomics
That's the thing, China doesn't need to resort to that.
It has many things going it's way
- being premier of China is a hugely influential and prestigious position.
- the culture promotes selfless service to the nation.
- the population is a resource so vast, sheer probabilistic theory means however rare the above are, you'll still have candidates in the thousands.
The political structure of the See See Pee is the rock that cements all the above. A factor that westerners cannot seem to understand ... Eligible candidates being filtered through the party system, sifted for their suitability, making their way to the pinnacle on a mix of statecraft and capability means a ruling cadre of very stable, very capable statesmen. Not actors voted to the top on a mix of lies and false promises.
The stability of the above means that long term growth can be planned without being destabilized by the tumultuous changing mandates of election cycles. Something that Singapore has been lucky to avoid too.
Sure corruption is an issue. But monetary pay won't solve the issue here. The amount of power and prestige in the position of POTUS and Premier of China puts paid to any reasonable renumeration controlling that.
Case in point is the US system where legalised "corruption" is so baked into the system that it doesn't matter who you vote, the end result is the same - it's the big lobbyies pulling the strings not your one man, one vote.
Money is the root of the problem, so money won't solve the problem. Maybe the cadre system of the CPC will, if they get the culture of selfless service to the nation right.
TAIPEI (Taiwan News) — Delegations from the Kuomintang (KMT) and the Taiwan People’s Party (TPP) sat down together Saturday (Oct. 14) in an effort to reach common ground ahead of next January’s presidential election.
Opinion polls have consistently shown Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) candidate Lai Ching-te (賴清德) holding a lead over the three other major candidates. TPP Chair Ko Wen-je (柯文哲) and New Taipei City Mayor Hou Yu-ih (侯友宜) of the KMT have been fighting for second place, with polls showing independent Terry Gou (郭台銘) in fourth.
TAIPEI (Taiwan News) — Terry Gou’s (郭台銘) presidential campaign office spokesperson Huang Shih-hsiu (黃士修) said on Saturday (Oct. 14) that there are opportunities for an alliance between Taiwan People’s Party (TTP) leader Ko Wen-je (柯文哲) and the independent candidate Gou.
Huang told journalists on Friday morning that the KMT and TTP are unlikely to reach a clear agreement on an alliance between their candidates in a discussion planned for Saturday afternoon. He added the conditions set by both sides for an alliance have become increasingly complex, CNA reported.
Polls show that if opposition can unite behind one candidate it has a great chance of dethroning DPP
Opinion polls have consistently shown Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) candidate Lai Ching-te (賴清德) holding a lead over the three other major candidates. TPP Chair Ko Wen-je (柯文哲) and New Taipei City Mayor Hou Yu-ih (侯友宜) of the KMT have been fighting for second place, with polls showing independent Terry Gou (郭台銘) in fourth.
TAIPEI (Taiwan News) — Terry Gou’s (郭台銘) presidential campaign office spokesperson Huang Shih-hsiu (黃士修) said on Saturday (Oct. 14) that there are opportunities for an alliance between Taiwan People’s Party (TTP) leader Ko Wen-je (柯文哲) and the independent candidate Gou.
Huang told journalists on Friday morning that the KMT and TTP are unlikely to reach a clear agreement on an alliance between their candidates in a discussion planned for Saturday afternoon. He added the conditions set by both sides for an alliance have become increasingly complex, CNA reported.
Polls show that if opposition can unite behind one candidate it has a great chance of dethroning DPP
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Because Indian strategic thinking has never managed to go beyond meme level. They want Tibet because Tibet is high ground, and once you have the high ground, it’s over for your opponent. Just ask Darth Vader.
Indian nationalist operate on literal hoi4 map painting principles. They want Xizang because owning it makes India bigger and richer. They have no plans whatsoever how to develop or take care of the population inside.
to be fair it is very expensive to pay your staff like singapore does. China can't afford that given the level of government debt at municipal levels. but "selfless service" has never worked in the long term.
the best solution remains just constant scrutiny of everyone. luckily in the information age it is a lot easier to gather information and not as easy to falsify/hide records. it will get progressively harder to steal/embezzle...but as i said corruption will take other forms, it will be a constant struggle.