Chinese Internal Politics

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drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
coolgod said:
Removing senior officials due to corruption is good, but removing Li Shangfu now is especially damaging to Chinese image in global stage. Not just cause he's China's defence minister, but because the US can claim "He didn't meet with us because was always under Chinese investigations".
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first, li has had many meetings with foreign counterparts prior to his disappearance.

more importantly, you have just iterated another great feature of the Chinese system, which is its ruthlessness. if someone has got to go, he is gonna go regardless of how it looks to "the global stage".
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
coolgod said:
Removing senior officials due to corruption is good, but removing Li Shangfu now is especially damaging to Chinese image in global stage. Not just cause he's China's defence minister, but because the US can claim "He didn't meet with us because was always under Chinese investigations".
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That’s like saying you shouldn’t remove the tumor from your face because the scar would be unsightly.
 
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drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
henrik said:
The big guy picked the wrong foreign minister and now this scandal. There are still effects from strict covid policies on the economy.
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that is the wrong way to look at it. yes xi picked these people, and they are caught with something. but that is more so an outcome of a more robust internal investigation approach. it is possible that had these officials been in their current post 20 years ago, they would have been able to retire in spite of having committed faults or even crimes. think about how many of stalin's hand-picked people he also disposed of. (my take on xi is that he is more like stalin than mao)
 
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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
The only bad news about the Qin situation is not for his corruption but for MSS' failure to find his personal moral corruption before Xi promoted him to the Foreign Minister position.

That's where the fault is. MSS should had vetted his underwear inside out before Xi had even thought of potential candidates for the Foreign Ministry position
 
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drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
CMP said:
That's certainly one way to frame this. The other way to frame this is that Western infiltration and corruption of CPC has gone on for so long and ran so deep that there are not many good choices. It will take 30-40 years of cleanup efforts to get completely clean. Right now we're at barely 1 decade after initial clean-up efforts.
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western infiltration is a very tiny portion of CPC's problem. the problem is mostly corruption. infiltration happens because of corruption, and fighting corruption will in fact make infiltration easier for some time.

i dont think "30-40 years to clean" is going to happen. a government wont be clean ever. since we know power corrupts, whoever holds power will for sure be corrupt. the answer to this is not to achieve some sort of victory over corruption, but to fight it permanently. build this mechanism into your bureaucratic system. the outward symptom of this is similar to what we see now, which is officials constantly expelled for corruption, this should be a permanent thing. be aware that corruption takes many forms, being lazy and hiding behind rules in order to not do work is also a form of corruption. at some point that will also become a target of the struggle against corruption. this struggle should go on forever, as an extension of the class struggle.
 
TK3600

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
drowingfish said:
western infiltration is a very tiny portion of CPC's problem. the problem is mostly corruption. infiltration happens because of corruption, and fighting corruption will in fact make infiltration easier for some time.

i dont think "30-40 years to clean" is going to happen. a government wont be clean ever. since we know power corrupts, whoever holds power will for sure be corrupt. the answer to this is not to achieve some sort of victory over corruption, but to fight it permanently. build this mechanism into your bureaucratic system. the outward symptom of this is similar to what we see now, which is officials constantly expelled for corruption, this should be a permanent thing. be aware that corruption takes many forms, being lazy and hiding behind rules in order to not do work is also a form of corruption. at some point that will also become a target of the struggle against corruption. this struggle should go on forever, as an extension of the class struggle.
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Now this is an ideology everyone in the world can get behind.
 
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SanWenYu

Captain
Registered Member
Unless we know that Xi bypassed the due process for his hand-picks, it's a failure of the process, or the system if you will. IMO it's still a long way for CPC to create the system that can prevent corruptions, at least to uncover them early on. It's hard because selfishness is a human nature. It might never happen until the day the true communism society is realized on earth.
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
In4ser

In4ser

Junior Member
drowingfish said:
western infiltration is a very tiny portion of CPC's problem. the problem is mostly corruption. infiltration happens because of corruption, and fighting corruption will in fact make infiltration easier for some time.

i dont think "30-40 years to clean" is going to happen. a government wont be clean ever. since we know power corrupts, whoever holds power will for sure be corrupt. the answer to this is not to achieve some sort of victory over corruption, but to fight it permanently. build this mechanism into your bureaucratic system. the outward symptom of this is similar to what we see now, which is officials constantly expelled for corruption, this should be a permanent thing. be aware that corruption takes many forms, being lazy and hiding behind rules in order to not do work is also a form of corruption. at some point that will also become a target of the struggle against corruption. this struggle should go on forever, as an extension of the class struggle.
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Entropy is absolute. Whatever system created to impose order will always fall into chaos. People, institutions and process will always become defective overtime just like how cells will eventual create errors during division resulting cancer. It's just a matter of time...that failure will occur.

All governments have an expiration date and while having competing political parities and democratic electoral process can achieve short-term cyclical stability, it is no guarantee for long-term cyclical protection and US has not yet completed through one unlike China has which is various dynastic transitions (averaging around every 200-300 years)
 
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