Chinese Internal Politics

SanWenYu

Captain
Registered Member
You act as if there are no easy PR points if they weren’t indicted.

Qin and Li not indicted: look, the whole anti-corruption thing is a scam. Xi would never purge his lackeys.

Qin and Li indicted: their corruption is so great that not even Xi can turn a blind eye to it. Just imagine how corrupt the rest of the SeeSeePee is.
It would be different.

By first reporting the missing from public of Qin and Li, the enemy's media scored some credibility as they were carrying out their duty as the reporters. They also got the chance to attach their speculations and insinuations to the reports. They score even more points when their speculations were proved right later. You see how China was losing step by step because it did not take the initiative?

Had the Chinese authority proactively stated Qin and Li were off duty, China would have kept the upper hand. Sure the enemy would still likely stir up the "power struggle" and "CCP corruption" insinuations, but they would be following CPC's steps and they would not have those easy scores at the start.
 

Chevalier

Captain
Registered Member
I understand the arguement. Nevertheless I favor removing those who are corrupt and competent. The competency can be built and nurtured, a good meritocracy should not lack competent candidates. Corruption is constant, it will worsen over time, never get better. Corruption also creates a norm that encourage others to also be corrupt. Therefore removing corruption is higher priority than maintain competencr. High competence enhance area of one domain. Corruption drag down entire systems.
This.
for example, look at Qin Gang holding the important post of foreign minister. That he has an illegitimate secret child with a Chinese American woman living in America compromises him to CIA blackmail and after the kidnapping of Meng wenzhou, any Chinese official in higher office with their immediate family outside of China becomes a liability.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
I don't think we are on the same page. Probably I wasn't clear. But I did not say how the Chinese authority should be transparent. Neither did I say how China should fight the PR war. Therefore I was not implying to follow the western style of transparency or PR tactics.

I understand the needs for the authority to keep certain processes in secret, for whatever reasons. But if China is to take PR seriously, it could have handled the incidents a bit more tactfully.

We need all agree on that complete lack of transparency is no good to anyone. It only leaves the public to rumors, lies and FUDs (fear, uncertainty and doubt).

At the beginning when Qin and Li were detained, it would have disabled the western media from scoring the easy points if the authority have proactively made a simple public statement of fact saying that these gentlemen are going to be off duty temporarily due to undisclosable reasons, i.e. “因故暂时无法履行职责” in Chinese.

For figures like Qin and Li who were constantly in spotlights, any disappearance of them from the public sights without explanation would immediately catch notice and start brewing rumors.

In the age of Internet, I don't think announcements like this would hurt reputation of any public servant if he later comes out clear and clean. It's a norm for officials to carry out undisclosable tasks, including cooperation in anti-corruption investigation.
Your suggested measure is only to create bigger rooms for imaginations therefor more ammunations to the enemy. As I said before, the moment you begin to play the western game, you already loose one way or the other.
 
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siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
It would be different.

By first reporting the missing from public of Qin and Li, the enemy's media scored some credibility as they were carrying out their duty as the reporters. They also got the chance to attach their speculations and insinuations to the reports. They score even more points when their speculations were proved right later. You see how China was losing step by step because it did not take the initiative?

Had the Chinese authority proactively stated Qin and Li were off duty, China would have kept the upper hand. Sure the enemy would still likely stir up the "power struggle" and "CCP corruption" insinuations, but they would be following CPC's steps and they would not have those easy scores at the start.

If you think MSM is credible on China, you’ll continue to believe so. If they can believe in Uighur genocide/slave labor I don’t see how this is all of a sudden gonna make it less credible.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
PR doesn't matter. What matters is how they were allowed to climb so high before being removed. Thats the issue that needs to be resolved
Qin Gang was removed due to his alleged womanizing ways, and that's not something any system in the world can predict how a man's going to give in to his literal wang. But, I do agree with you regarding the dismissal of Gen. Li. The military promotion must be looked at and ought to be evaluated with great vigilance and care.
 

SanWenYu

Captain
Registered Member
If you think MSM is credible on China, you’ll continue to believe so. If they can believe in Uighur genocide/slave labor I don’t see how this is all of a sudden gonna make it less credible.
Not all things are like diodes. If a western media reported one thing right, you have to give them the credibility on that particular report. At the same time, you can still have doubt on their honesty and reject the lies from them. These two are not incompatible.

We cite western media all the time here, including the incidents of Qin and Li. I don't see people starting to trust the western media because of it.
 

SanWenYu

Captain
Registered Member
Your suggested measure is only to create bigger rooms for imaginations therefor more ammunations to the enemy. As I said before, the moment you begin to play the western game, you already loose one way or the other.
How is that simple public statement of fact to play the western game?

You mentioned imaginations. Chinese do not need external input for imaginations. Even without considering the western media, Chinese public would have started speculating when there was no words from the authority on the whereabouts of these guys.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
How is that simple public statement of fact to play the western game?
Because "making such statement before investigation is over" itself is part of western game (how things are done in the west).

You mentioned imaginations. Chinese do not need external input for imaginations. Even without considering the western media, Chinese public would have started speculating when there was no words from the authority on the whereabouts of these guys.
Imaginations without evidence, proof and due procedure is wrong and damagining, it doesn't matter if it is from Chinese or west. Those imaginative Chinese are doing the same thing as the enemy without knowing it. Giving vague statement as you suggested is only to fuel such imaginations.

I learned a good lesson recently by watching "Babylon Berlin" and "Hitler: The Rise of Evil". The shocking thing is to see how the mass population swung left and right based on roumors or simple but artisticly crafted speeches. How large part of working class men in Nazi camp fought another large part of working class men in Communist camp before Nazi won. How there is supporters of both camps in the same family. It is no surprise that a large portion of Sturmabteilung was ex-communist supporters according to Nazi investigation after the night of longknife. It is all because imagined "truth" presented by "freedom and transparency".

My words is that mass population as a collection is pretty dumb. It can be fooled easily by crazy men or can be guided by men of reason depending on the institutional design. The western system is certainly the crazy one.

The most dangerous enemy isn't from outside, but lies inside ourselves, our over-expectation for "truth" before collecting all facts possible and digested them.
 
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SanWenYu

Captain
Registered Member
Because "making such statement before investigation is over" itself is part of western game (how things are done in the west).



Imaginations without evidence, proof and due procedure is wrong and damagining, it doesn't matter if it is from Chinese or west. Those imaginative Chinese are doing the same thing as the enemy without knowing it. Giving vague statement as you suggested is only to fuel such imaginations.

I learned a good lesson recently by watching "Babylon Berlin" and "Hitler: The Rise of Evil". The shocking thing is to see how the mass population swung left and right based on roumors or simple but artisticly crafted speeches. How large part of working class men in Nazi camp fought another large part of working class men in Communist camp before Nazi won. How there is supporters of both camps in the same family. It is no surprise that a large portion of Sturmabteilung was ex-communist supporters according to Nazi investigation after the night of longknife. It is all because imagined "truth" presented by "freedom and transparency".

My words is that mass population as a collection is pretty dumb. It can be fooled easily by crazy men or can be guided by men of reason depending on the institutional design. The western system is certainly the crazy one.

The most dangerous enemy isn't from outside, but lies inside ourselves, our over-expectation for "truth" before collecting all facts possible and digested them.
I am not even suggesting that the authority should have explained why these guys were off duty. All I said is for China to be a bit more tactful to not give the western media the upper hand and close a venue of lies from the start. That's far from "over-expectation for 'truth'".
 
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